What was your main criterion for being the "Best Oxalic Acid Vaporizer" ?
I have never used one or seen one used before so I am primarily interested in the critiques of those that have purchased them and have used them. After reading the generated threads here I guess I'll lean towards the Varrox most likely. I appreciate the feedback as I'd rather spend a little more on a better made unit and not purchase one that might have issues. So my criteria for purchase will be based on quality of construction and longevity of the unit. I want one that will last.
"Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti
One thing I like about the Varrox is its simple, tough looking design. It looks like it could rattle around in the back of your truck forever and still function when you dig it out. That's just an opinion though..I haven't beat mine enough to say for sure.
All this talk about which one is better. Well, mine of course. :-)
It's solid, I can quick cool it in the bucket. And if anything fails, I can easily replace the one part. Oh, did I mention it cost 80% less.
Homemade is always better.
www.facebook.com/hives2honey Oxalic Vaporizers, supplement and more!!!!!! Check me out.
I made a decent one. I haven't had any issues and I've never replaced the glow plug. With that said, I did it for fun as I like to tinker. Why mess with this? Spend your time on your bees. Buy the Varrox and be done with it. That's what I'll do if mine ever quits.
Our VP at work has a coupe bee hives at his home (his wife is interested) and he wants me to build him an OA Vaporizer like the one I built and use. I think I'll just buy him the Varrox. Now that I figured out how to make a decent one (the fun part for me), they are no fun to build when you don't have proper tools to mill metal.
Hi everybody, I used some vaporizer on the market, one year ago I bought this "Oxalika" it's a vaporizer manufactured in Italy, it has the temperature control, great idea, doesn't allow to burn the acid, is very tough, and unlike the varrox, the bees don't attack the device so much, maybe cause is not too hot, now in every treatment I kill just 3/4 bees and i'm very happy about it, you can find some videos on YouTube, and the price is almost the same.
https://www.google.it/search?q=oxalika&client=ms-android-asus&hl=it-IT&prmd=mivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEw i48vb4lr3TAhVL1xoKHec7DY8Q_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=615 #imgrc=d0xMgkbDrJ_QkM:
Last edited by SteveHive; 04-24-2017 at 07:19 AM. Reason: I wanted to reply to a message, instead I produced a post
Vaporizers (like the Varrox) are designed so that the OA is all sublimed by the time the the vaporizer gets hot enough to decompose OA in formic and CO2........ It does not need a timer. Ask those who use it as to their results.........
Anyway i work as a professor in high school, i have some other friends in school and we all have bees, let's say that we own in total around 110 beehives, we like to share, to meet and to talk, this quote about the aggression is something that we experienced (not only with the varrox, that's the most famous), we had this little problem ourselves and we tried to ask here and there and usually we find the same answers, so we did an annual statistic and putting the data together we found this, that the Oxalika one killed less bees than others, so we wanted to give us an answer and with the students in the laboratory we calculated each vaporizer's temperature, and we found that every one of them goes far over 572°F apart from oxalika that goes around 390°F , so we've ipotized that less temperature in the beehive could be one of the reasons why our bees didn't attack the vaporizer so much.
"Really???? You need to research this a little more..........
There are only 2 products produced when OA is heated too fast....... formic and co2. There is not enough formic to kill mites and not enough co2 to hurt bees. But there is no OA to kill mites."
We researched it with our students (agricultural studies), there are scientific publications on wich we can find each substance phisical properties, vaporization included, and is not a matter of "heating too fast" is a matter of "heating too much" so , "bad byproducts" is intended in the sense that we "barbecue" the oxalic acid, some goes in and some doesn't, you are right when you say that there is no OA to kill mites(and that's a problem for us because the majority of the vaporizers exceed tremendously the vaporization point, (in the papers very few talk about formic, hard to find, sure about co, co2 and h20).
This article is more than clear, it's very intresting, sure you will like it.
That's why i like the idea of the temperature control, i wanted to build one myself, but i have really little free time and then i found this one that self regulates the temperature and i tell you the truth, i got a little envious, i wanted to produce one with my student and we didn't, but, i bought it and i have to say that i like it, is functional, resistant and works good, what else could i ask for?
I promise that next time i'll answer or write something here i'll quote every word, sorry for my initial "generality", sometimes when the conversation gets to technical somebody gets lost, and it's good to read that there are some people that actually spend some time in researching and reading properly, thank you for that.
Last edited by SteveHive; 04-24-2017 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Incomplete
I'll reiterate. I have never seen bees attack a vaporizer. And ...I've vaporized many a hive. Yes, I've "cooked a couple of bees that got too inquisitive, but not many. Also, as previously stated, a well constructed vaporizer (such as the Varrox) is designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes. No timer is necessary. It is just another item to break ....... Yes, vaporizers reach a temperature of 572 and above, but again if the OA is sublimated prior to that point, it is not an issue.
If you're trying to sell this new vaporizer, perhaps take out an ad in the "For Sale" forum.
You have said that vaporizors tested greatly exceeded sublimation temperatures. Was this during sublimation or some unstated time after sublimation was completed but without disconnecting power?
I found that most unregulated tray type vaporizors can have the power cut off some thirty seconds or so before sublimation is complete and there is enough heat in the mass of the tray to complete the process. Observation trial runs are suggested outside the hive where the process can be timed and observed. I suggest that the excessively high temperatures you mention would be the result of operator error.
There is no question that the uncontrolled temperature models can become quite hot if left on for un-recommended periods of time. The power wattage, the mass of the unit, the area for heat dissipation, the amount of heat loss to handle, etc. will all affect the temperature curve during sublimation and the ultimate temperature reached before an equilibrium is reached.
I feel that perhaps you may have painted with a broad brush in some of your statements and I would be interested in seeing the test parameters where it is assumed that the sublimation products were harmful or less effective. Ultimate temperature reached should not be a concern with proper use. Some of the assertions do sound a bit like sales pitch to talk up the value of an item being promoted. Advertising is well known for promoting the pros and cons of things that really are not very important in real life.
As this is a thread on the 'best' OA vaporiser then I wouldn't choose any of the heated pan type models you slide into the hive entrance. These are slower and much less convenient than the sort that squirt the vapour out through a nozzle that is simply inserted into a narrow hole (6mm 1/4 inch?) through the hive body.
I have the Sublimox which works well, snl markets the equivalent ProVap 110 which looks similar. I've no links with either company, other than a customer of the first. The OA spends about 25 seconds in the pan, is vaporised, ejected and you start the next hive. No need to cool the machine before treatments.
The Apiarist - beekeeping in Fife, Scotland
Another thing, "Varrox is designed to sublimate the OA before it decomposes" that's a theorical statement, cause for being sure of it we should have a chemical test on the vapour itself with compounds percentages, this test my friend DOESN'T EXIST yet, so, the only parameter we can rely upon are inferencial and technical data, again, if we want to talk in front of a beer is different, if we go technical we HAVE to know how to go technical, i'm an engineer, my consideration have to have a base on papers, studies and tests i'm wired this way and when i see a good product i have to admit it(sometimes i write on car forums, i like volkswagen a lot, nobody ever stated that i work for them.)
There is no timer involved, this vaporizer keeps the temperature constant without the need of any external gizmo, again, for making a good statement you should at least know the object, please, before replying i beg you to read the paper that i sent you in link and have a look at the Oxalika specs, if you don't, it's fine, you can use your Varrox as much as you want, good day sir.
SteveHive, as an engineer have you any idea of the calories required to boil off the water of crystallization and the calories required to sublimate a gram of oxalic acid basically the latent heat required. As just another idiot making observations I have studied the vapor leaving the heated devices and have found it contains mostly crystals of oxalic acid as formic and co2 would not be in crystal form. Furthermore I have now taken to using a 3M paper mask when vaporizing and contrary to popular belief I am still alive and well. I believe that the latent heat required by the oxalic acid does not allow the small devices to break down the acid. I have built temperature controlled devices and have seen the temperatures fall like a stone when the OA is added. So there is a great deal of assumption out there but you tell me how it is that there is no trace of formic or oxalic acids through a plain particulate paper mask.