Here we go again
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    5,486

    Default Here we go again

    Didn't read the link yet, but thought I'd share

    http://www.honeycolony.com/article/c...his-bee-hives/

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Newberg, OR USA
    Posts
    151

    Default Re: Here we go again

    what has happen for him to loose 90%? I think more is at play?

  4. #3

    Default Re: Here we go again

    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    3,796

    Default Re: Here we go again

    The article doesn't ESTABLISH anything new. It reports that Hackenberg and Adee lost a tragic amount of their bees, for which they place the blame on Neonics. And the article goes on to say that they are making those allegations in a law suit.

    I posted on FaceBook a bit ago about this article. I don't want to copy and paste my post from there so I'll try to use different words.

    The issue is complicated and thorough scientific research doesn't make for good headlines. All 'cides are designed to kill something (or at a minimum to prevent "harm".) Neonics are the latest cause de jour. Their use appears to have unintended consequences. So why are they used? I think it is a combination of profit motive and belief that the Neonics as a class are better (meaning safer for humans) than what came before. I also think that Neonics are more studied than what came before, and it does not surprise me that they are not perfect, yet certainly there are reasons they replaced other Ag chemicals.

    I'm trying to wrap my head around the certainty of death from exposure versus the not completely understood consequences of sub-lethal exposure. Is one better than the other?

    Like it or not, Hackenberg and Adee are participants in big Ag. They undertake risks when they accept pollination fees. It is all part of feeding the world at lowish prices.

    (for those that are interested, I first received the link to the article yesterday from my wife, who got it from an EAS friend in New Zealand)

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Aurora, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Here we go again

    I think there's a lot more to CCD than just the neonics. Mites stress hives. Disease stresses hives. Treatments stress hives. Moving hives around the country to pollinate multiple crops in different environments stresses hives. Adding everything up and then throwing neonics into the mix is a recipe for 90% losses, IMO.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Here we go again

    I think Hackenberg will need to show a lot more than "neonics could kill bees" to make a strong case. For example, if they are as bad as he claims, commercial pollinators should be totally wiped out by now as corn, soybeans, canola, sugar beets and other major crops are already treated with them nearly nationwide. Is this primarily a Hackenberg/Adee problem? (Not to say we aren't losing bees, but not 90%!)

    I saw this is Hackenberg's 2nd claim in 10 years that he lost 90% of his bees. Maybe he isn't a good beekeeper. He will probably need to show his mite counts and account for all the pesticides and other treatments he himself added to his hives.

    It seems the general opinion of neonics, from what I have read and discussed with farmers, is they are much better than the alternatives they replaced, but still poisons to insects and there could be harmful effects to bees that consume them.

    Jim.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Posts
    141

    Default Re: Here we go again

    Here's a link to a very, very, long report out of Australia about the use of "neconics."

    https://archive.apvma.gov.au/news_me...ruary_2014.pdf

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lee\'s Summit, MO
    Posts
    2,514

    Default Re: Here we go again

    "Neonics are up to 10,000 times more dangerous that DDT. Enough said."

    Where's the evidence for this claim? I'm trying to read this with an open mind but when I see unsubstantiated ludicrous claims my BS radar begins to howl. The "Enough said" appears to have been added by the reporter too. A reporter is supposed to report the facts. "Neonics are up to 10,000 time more dangerous than DDT" is not a proven fact, it's speculation. "Enough said."? Well, that's what someone who's low on defendable information says when they no longer want to hear anything that doesn't support their position.

    To me, this is a well written piece of propaganda masquerading as a news article.
    Ninja, is not in the dictionary. Well played Ninja's, well played...

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Aurora, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Here we go again

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    "Neonics are up to 10,000 times more dangerous that DDT. Enough said."

    Where's the evidence for this claim? I'm trying to read this with an open mind but when I see unsubstantiated ludicrous claims my BS radar begins to howl. The "Enough said" appears to have been added by the reporter too. A reporter is supposed to report the facts. "Neonics are up to 10,000 time more dangerous than DDT" is not a proven fact, it's speculation. "Enough said."? Well, that's what someone who's low on defendable information says when they no longer want to hear anything that doesn't support their position.

    To me, this is a well written piece of propaganda masquerading as a news article.
    I have to agree. Reading articles like the one posted make me less inclined to demand any sort of action from elected officials WRT neonics and I am one to be in constant contact with my elected officials.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    5,486

    Default Re: Here we go again

    Yeah, if that was the case, wouldn't we all be dead, DDT was pretty nasty, so 10,000X should kill you on the spot within a 50 mile radius I would think. I think the Adee loss is referring to his 2006/7 loss, not anything recent though.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    6,034

    Default Re: Here we go again

    Quote Originally Posted by jfmcree View Post
    Maybe he isn't a good beekeeper. He will probably need to show his mite counts and account for all the pesticides and other treatments he himself added to his hives.
    That's an interesting thought, isn't it? That he might not be terribly good at keeping bees post-varroa introduction? I watched "The Vanishing of the Bees" before I became a beekeeper, and thought it seemed dishonest in some regard at the time. And now that I know a little more, it seems like a smear piece through-and-through. And it's telegraphed from a million miles away, I can't remember one single scientific argument being made during the movie... it's been awhile since I watched it, but I don't think facts were very widely used.

    The trouble with anything like like this is the emotional attachment... "I know Dave and he's a really nice guy." kind of thing. That is probably entirely true... but that doesn't make him immune from having to know how to keep his bees and run a successful business outside of being propped up by the all too familiar government safety net. How many strikes does the rest of the world get before they have to pursue a different livelihood?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Spencer, MA, USA
    Posts
    2,862

    Default Re: Here we go again

    All I know is the Maine Bee Inspector had some interesting things to say about Hack's bees before the 1st collapse. Says he warned him about the mite counts and that the bees were on the verge of collapse.

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