Selling Bees for Sting Therapy
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  1. #1
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    Jul 2013
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    Default Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Had a call tonight from someone asking if we sell bees for sting therapy. I'm looking for advice from folks who have sold bees for sting therapy before. 1) How does one price 40 to 50 bees (mostly labor and supplies to capture and cage them up I suppose, plus risk or ? 2) I've seen various cages ranging from smaller ones with sliding ventilated plexiglass tops to larger boxes that people use for holding them prior to therapy (we can make just about anything, but I'm wondering if there is a "standard" for these). 3) How long do they keep the bees for after receipt? Do I need to include some feed in the cage? 4) I wonder about is the liability/legal/risk side...to me its one thing if an individual goes to a physician or therapist who is administering the treatment but maybe whole different issue if they go to a person self administering? 5) Are there laws governing administration of apitherapy? As I think through this I have to ask some more questions of the person that called and also our insurer since they are "sensitive" about things...but advice is appreciated.

    Rich
    Capital Bee Supply
    Madison, WI
    www.capitalbeesupply.com
    Manufacturers and Purveyors of Fine Beekeeping Equipment

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  3. #2
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    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Here is one example....

    http://ferrisapiaries.com/?page_id=73

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    You are asking advice from others who have done this ... that leaves me out.
    But I first got interested in bees under the influence of Dr. Amber Rose' book, "Bee in Balance".
    Now, having been diagnosed as "sensitive" to bee stings, I would think twice about the legal liability of selling bees for this purpose, although I would advise any one who asked about how to catch their own bees. or, maybe sell them a nuc & let them become their own bee keeper. ( or maybe not.... ) CE
    Started summer of 2013, just another new guy, tinkering with bees.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    When we picked up our first box of bees, a gentleman was explaining to all of us noobs how to sugar the bees before putting them in the hive and he took two of them and had them sting his lower back. He said it was his therapy for back pain.

    Having never been stung by a bee in my life at that point, I was gobsmacked.
    After I got stung a couple times, I was even more amazed that someone would do that deliberately.

    But I still swell and itch horrendously when I get stung. Perhaps it is an acquired tolerance...

    Honeybeesuite.com guestimates approximately 10,500 bees in a 3lb box. dividing that by $125 (the cost for a 3# box here in Colorado), that would be about 8.4 cents per bee at current street market value. 50 of them would then be about $4.
    toss in time, energy, and packaging, and $8-10 (or about .20 per bee) would seem a fair asking price.

    I would make sure to include a PRINTED disclaimer that the buyer acknowledges and assumes ALL responsibility and liability for any allergic reactions, and that you, the seller assumes NO responsibility, nor makes ANY medical claims regarding the use of bee stings. You just sell 'em. You don't know or want to know what happens to them after the sale.

    ~M

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    My question here is, even if recent research shows that there is no significant difference of outcome in a regular person with arthritis compared with a person receiving bee therapy. Is it better to inform customers about this findings? Ethical principle i guess.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    I am on some of the BVT groups on FB and have used bee venom before to treat my own conditions. Ferris is in the process of moving their location and isn't taking new orders for a little while so they can get reconfigured in their new space. This has created quite a vacuum of customers who need bees and are looking for sources. Shipping bees in the winter is very problematic, and most of the people in the FB groups are reporting delayed shipments and dead bees on arrival.

    Capitalbees, I'd encourage you to look into finding a way to ship the bees. For some places, the prices is calculated at 0.10 per bee plus the cost of shipping. A new company has just gotten into the game and they sell their bees on ebay. they use a clear plastic container, like a pill bottle. That takes the guesswork out of crafting little wooden boxes.

    When people sting, they are doing up to 10 stings a day, every other day so a box of 50 bees lasts them less than 2 weeks. All of them know to provide the bees honey when they get them. Whether or not you provide a sugar plug will be up to you.

    As for legal issues, most of these people are not doing this under the guidance of a physician. Many follow Amber Rose and there are a couple other names out there. Your price list should not offer any claims of what it may cure or even mention what they should "use" the bees for .
    Last edited by ruthiesbees; 01-07-2016 at 12:00 PM.

  8. #7
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    Lincoln Co., WI, USA
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Laredrone View Post
    My question here is, even if recent research shows that there is no significant difference of outcome in a regular person with arthritis compared with a person receiving bee therapy. Is it better to inform customers about this findings? Ethical principle i guess.
    In my opinion, the ethical thing to do is inform them. Unfortunately, doing so will probably cost you some sales.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    50c per bee and they ship in 3 hole cages.

    http://www.beeweaver.com/buy_beeweaver/mini_bee_pacs

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthiesbees View Post
    .....You price list should not offer any claims of what it may cure or even mention what they should "use" the bees for .
    ABSOLUTELY best advice! Sell the bees and recurring live delivery, not their usage or fitness for any specific purpose.

    Sky

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxie View Post
    In my opinion, the ethical thing to do is inform them. Unfortunately, doing so will probably cost you some sales.
    If someone is wants to buy bees for venom "therapy" good luck convincing them otherwise.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    If someone is wants to buy bees for venom "therapy" good luck convincing them otherwise.
    Same with local honey for allergies.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    "I wonder about is the liability/legal/risk side...to me its one thing if an individual goes to a physician or therapist who is administering the treatment but maybe whole different issue if they go to a person self administering?"...

    Capital Bee

    I think that its very logical to assume that there "could" definitely be a possible legality issue to knowingly selling bees to individuals who wish to sting themselves for beneficial purposes. There are obvious negative scenarios that one can envision. I have been asked numerous times to administer sting treatments to individuals with Parkinson's, Lyme disease, as well as M.S. I only did it for one woman 20 something years ago. I finally came to the realization that even thought I am very knowledgeable regarding bees and adverse reactions to bee venom, I didn't think it wise get involved with alternative medical treatments. The way I look at it in most areas honeybees are free for the taking for the majority of spring, summer and fall. Why would someone have to send (or sell) bees through the mail when they are free for the taking?
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    they are free for the taking?
    Free for the taking?!? Leave my bees alone!!
    Maybe i can come up with a "bee-brander" so i know when they are being rustled.......


    My dad used to have a bee sting his arthritic hands back in the 1980s, when he and i kept bees together. He said he never knew if it helped or not, but since his hands hurt all the time anyway, why not give it a try?

    Interesting, to sell bees for this specific purpose.
    -- Joe
    "Make your own decision and embrace the consequences." -- jwcarlson

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmje View Post
    Free for the taking?!? Leave my bees alone!!
    Maybe i can come up with a "bee-brander" so i know when they are being rustled.......


    My dad used to have a bee sting his arthritic hands back in the 1980s, when he and i kept bees together. He said he never knew if it helped or not, but since his hands hurt all the time anyway, why not give it a try?

    Interesting, to sell bees for this specific purpose.
    When you are in constant pain, and the RX just isn't helping anymore, a bee sting or two in the right spot makes it all ok. I could even walk up and down my stairs without pain.

    Just so you all know, most of the people who want to buy live bees for apitherapy are those with Lyme disease. They've lived with the debilitating affects for years with no relief from the prescription meds. Many are finding some measure of relief (or cure) by using Bee Venom. Within the groups that I am a part of, I will encourage them to take up beekeeping so they don't need to buy the bees all the time, but these people are barely able to get out of bed in the morning and fix themselves something to eat, let alone look after a bee hive.

    I'd encourage you all to look up BVT and Lyme on youtube and see what these people are dealing with.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Quote Originally Posted by capitalbeesupply View Post
    Had a call tonight from someone asking if we sell bees for sting therapy.
    Rich
    Capital Bee Supply
    Madison, WI
    I would not do it. You would be on thin ice for practicing medicine without a license. I don't see why you couldn't sell them the smallest package of bees for like an observation hive and then "they" can do what ever they like with them.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Couple of things.........

    Ruthie, could you share some links? Very interesting as to the groups regarding lyme, apitherapy, etc.

    Also, something I read mentioned the one reason Lyme is difficult to treat is it likes to hide in joints and the brain. Medication needs to be able to cross the blood/brain barrier. Bee venom will cross over. Stings directly to joints will take care of areas without blood flow.
    Is it summer yet?

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    In the past I just gave the bees away from a strong hive.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    If you advertise and sell mini packs of bees and don't suggest anyone sting themselves and don't associate the word apitherapy with the product how would that be an issue? Are all the people selling queen bees with attendants at risk of getting sued? Package them up in a queen cage and sell them as "prepackaged attendant bees".

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    In answer to Bee Bliss..

    The FB groups on treating lyme with bee venom are closed groups and I'm not allowed to repost anything from them. They will usually allow beeks to join the group if you just want to be a silent observer.

    I have an open group on FB for Apitherapy with some documents and some posts about bee venom and lyme https://www.facebook.com/groups/apitherapy/

    Here is one on the protocol for treating lyme with canned bee venom. I believe Charles Mraz was the main supplier of medicinal bee venom for quite some time. He's considered the pioneer in pushing bee venom to treat chronic issues.
    http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/Protocols/The-Treatment-of-lyme-Disease-with-Bee-Venom.html


    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...72212246192906

    http://www.blessedbeetherapy.com/?page_id=15

    http://www.honeybeehealers.com/infor...-lyme-disease/

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Selling Bees for Sting Therapy

    Thanks Ruthiesbees!
    Is it summer yet?

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