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Ye Olde Skep

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14K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  tech.35058 
#1 ·
I've been researching skep keeping, and ordered a book via Amazon (oh, packages, how you test my patience!). In the meantime, I tried finding something on here, and I'm mildly surprised I've not found anything. I was wondering if any of you had any experience with skep keeping? I'd imagine it's pretty uncommon, especially here in the US. I'm pondering having skeps as a bit of a research project, and for the fun of it. I think it'd be a pretty interesting undertaking.
 
#2 ·
My understanding is that skeps, having no removable combs may not be legal in some, or all, states.

But they are handsome.

Look here for links (or Google) to see info about Heath beekeeping; especially a series of YouTubes (they have titles in German but are narrated in in English).

Enj
 
#3 ·
I had one years experience with keeping bees in a skep. Soon after moving from Williamsburg, VA to near Wooster, OH to attend a 2 year College Course in Commercial Beekeeping I collected a swarm into a skep that I had brought with me from my previous job at Colonial Williamsburg.

Bees built comb in the skep. I set it up on a stand and made a grass "mop" to put on top of it to shed the rain. It wasn't a particularly big skep, so it swarmed a couple times. And then, while weak, it got robbed out.

It was fun to play with. The new combs were pliable enough to move back and forth some. But as was mention by enjambres, skeps are illegal because they don't have removable combs. Though, if you will look at some of the old books, you will find that there are ways of removing and reinstalling the combs if you have the right tools and have built a post with cross pieces to support the combs.
 
#6 ·
No, actually it isn't crazy that they are illegal. All hives which don't have removable/inspectable combs are illegal for just that reason. If you can't inspect the brood combs you won't know when your hives have AFB and EFB in them. We already dealt with that earlier in the 20th century.
 
#10 ·
The state bee inspector has the right inspect hives, and in situations where AFB American foul brood, or EFB European foul brood the inspector can prescribe a treatment. If treatment is not followed he may have the right to burn the infected hives. If one make themselves too much of a pain in his back side, he just may burn every hive in the apiary! A hive in which the comb cannot be removed for proper inspection would obviously be in jeopardy of containing disease undetected. thus the reason the laws were made. To protect beekeeping at large. Michigan has no apiary registration, and no bee inspectors.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Ya back in 2007, when I was book reading stage for getting into bk'n, I dropped a few hours in the wasted time bucket to find out how to and if I needed to get my hives registered. At one time there were inspectors and I got ahold of a retired one, that's when I found out that Michigan is a knuckle dragger in the bee industry.
I've watched the utube series of German skep keepers from the fifties, watching them takes all the luster out of that aspect.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Here are the laws specific to beekeeping in Oregon.

https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/lawsstatutes/2013ors602.html

It looks like in 1993 they went through and removed most of the laws. I just gave it a quick look and didn't see any mention of a requirement for movable comb. It may be worth your time to look up the pre 1993 laws that they removed so you have an idea of what they changed.

And according to the last sentence breaking any of those laws is a class b misdemeanor. Which in Oregon is a maximum of 6 months in jail and or a maximum of $2500 fine.
 
#22 ·
>In most states they just burn your skeps...

Eesh, I hope not. I tried looking online for any laws for here in Oregon, and found nothing. I'm checking Joe's link to see if I can at least find a place to go for more information with a few phone calls as the link seems to deal with registration, penalties, and power or eradication. I'd love to try skep keeping on the side as a bit of a small personal research project for myself, but I'd hate to do it illegally, or have it be taken away from me.
 
#25 ·
I seriously doubt the space time continuum would be disrupted if you made and kept a colony in a skep. I can think of two reeds that would lend themselves to be rolled and tied into wrist size ropes. One could continue to add reeds as the rope got longer or you could join the six feet tall bundles the reeds would make with a big sailors needle or one use to sew up wool sacks pulling a Dacron fishing line or monofilament if you protect the line from the sun. Be sure to make the top taper fast to I would say 16" round inside diameter. Use a five gallon bucket for a form seems to me would work. I would make the interior of the top flat and arrange to anchor some wooden slats for the bees to attach comb to. Dipping them in wax and attaching some starter combs would be ideal. If you have watched the heather skep beekeeping videos you could have extrapolated the details easily. I personally do not want to coat mine with fresh cow manure even though I know of great supplies close at hand! One could make hypertufa easily enough and recipes abound on the net if you want that Germanic flavor.

There are sound reasons for limiting the usage of non moveable combs but the people who would go to the trouble of making a skep are far less dangerous than the swarms of those operating treatment free without the knowledge to pull it off. The comb police do not go looking for Warre keepers either though that discipline is just as illegal. We are so well supplied with laws that we all are breaking one anyway so keep your mouth shut and learn what AFB smells like. That is all the info one really needs anyway. Merry Christmas.[/I]
 
#26 ·
I'd like to have a skep or three after a couple years of working with the regular Langstroth, as that's the equipment that I have. It's also what's required during my tutelage through the local university here to have langstroth hives. Thanks, and a Merry Christmas to you, too.
 
#27 ·
vermin06,
Let's start with the legality of keeping bees in skeps. I myself do not worry about such things. Unless you have a real 'jerk' as a bee inspector or neighboring beekeeper, - nobody is going to give a hoot about keeping a one or two colonies in skeps for research purposes. If the occasion does arise, simply do a cutout and place them out into a frame hive. Most beekeepers have broken that law the day they sat a bee tree portion in their yard or have bees swarm into empty hive boxes. I have toured several 'display apiaries' located at Universities over the years, -some of these having bees in log hives and box hives without movable frames, so you may be able to get exemptions for research purposes.

History has shown that beekeepers like to blame feral colonies and the non movable frame hives for their own problems, -somehow knowing the beekeeper 3 miles down the road is responsible for their own disease problems. It's a law that for the most part good, but sometimes also fueled by paranoia, -as history shows with the feral colony eradication programs of the early 20th century which failed in controlling disease.

The best place to start is making your own skeps, because those purchased are often inadequate in size and meant for display. A practical skep for bees should probably be 18 to 20 inches tall and about 16 inches at the base, -and according to friends in the UK who practice skep beekeeping, -should support your own weight, being able to stand on the skep without damage.

The first step is to search craigslist for organic a 'long rye' or 'long wheat' supplier. Some friends in the UK are teaching me the art of skep making, unfortunately I have promised to keep confidential their names due to privacy and time concerns. Martin Buckle from the UK is probably the foremost expert on skep making, he has some online instruction on skep making you can follow.

Here are a few sources:

Skep Books

Showler, Karl (1990) Some hints on the art and mystery of skep making

Alston, F. (1987) Skeps, their History, Making and Use.


Skep Making Online

How to Make Your Own Skep - Martin Buckle
http://www.martinatnewton.com/page6.htm

How to Build a Skep - Modern Farmer
http://modernfarmer.com/2013/05/how-to-build-a-bee-skep/

Skep Making
http://translate.google.com/transla...ereniging/cursus/korfvlechtcursus&prev=search


Skep Online
Brief Beekeeping in Image and Word.
https://translate.google.com/transl...uden/article/view/5268/4771&edit-text&act=url


Heathland Beekeeping 1 Spring Work in a Heather Skep Apiary xvid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2IjNBbLESY&list=PLYXejt7IvbsPfyUS0CehTWrMo9oGKnXFO
 
#28 ·
I am not aware of the feral colony eradication program you sited. " -as history shows with the feral colony eradication programs of the early 20th century which failed in controlling disease. " Can you show me a link or tell me where or how you learned of this?
 
#37 ·
sqkcrk,
Here is a recommendation by Michigan State University to "attend" to feral bees.
and another from The Western Honey Bee.
I will post my source for the feral colony eradication programs, if I run across it again. This is something I read about some time ago; during the early 1910's and 1920's foulbrood legislation and panic was commonplace,,, I will post it to this thread if I manage to relocate.

1920 - Michigan State University. Agricultural Experiment

"Bee-trees in the woods should be promptly attended to by the owner as the occupants of the tree frequently become infected with foul-brood, are killed out during the winter and then remain a source of infection for all bees within flying distance."

https://books.google.com/books?id=n...ntly become infected with foul-brood"&f=false


1921 - The Western Honey Bee

"Section 4. It shall likewise be the duty-of the county bee inspector to inspect all colonies of wild bees reported to him as being infected with any foul brood disease, and to destroy any infected wild bees found by him"

https://books.google.com/books?id=l... any infected wild bees found by him"&f=false
 
#29 ·
It is interesting that sqkcrk mentions that he used to work in Colonial Williamsburg and that keeping bees in skeps is illegal. In fact, skeps are sold in Colonial Williamsburg, but only as decorations. You're told flat-out that they are illegal for keeping bees.

And because skeps are a piece of history, and Williamsburg is living history, you get the back story. Traditionally, the way to harvest honey from a skep is to kill the bees by hitting them with sulfur smoke. That's all about THAT practice I care to know!
 
#30 ·
If that is the backstory you got in Williamsburg re: skeps being illegal, then you got a good tourist story, not the facts. The spread of AFB and the need to inspect comb is the real story, but too complex to expect it to be known/understood by layfolk.
 
#31 ·
We actually got both stories. I can't remember which we got from their beekeeper (tending a Langstroth hive) and which from the Master Gardener. But I seem to remember standing by the Langstroth hive with the beekeeper explaining how honey was harvested from skeps. This seems to be supported by a Wikipedia article, "Beehive."

Skeps have two disadvantages; beekeepers cannot inspect the comb for diseases and pests, and honey removal is not easy – often resulting in the destruction of the entire colony. To get the honey beekeepers either drove the bees out of the skep or, by the use of a bottom extension called an eke or a top extension called a cap, sought to create comb with just honey in it. Quite often the bees were just killed, sometimes using lighted sulfur, to allow the honeycomb to be removed. Skeps could also be squeezed in a vise to extract the honey. As of 1998, most US states prohibited the use of skeps because they can not be inspected for disease and parasites.[11]

The legal reason of not being able to inspect is quite valid. But destructive honey harvest, with harm or death caused to the bees, is contrary to modern beekeeping sentiment.
 
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