The Mighty Mite Bomb... - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Over the years of keeping bees both before mites, and after mites, it's been noticeable that queen lifespan is fairly closely correlated to mite associated damage, or lack of.

    I can still get queens into their third year, if they were raised in a hive with (tested) low DWV and N. Cerana, and live their lives in hives with mites well controlled. Queens raised in infested hives and living with a mite load are often close to the end of their life, and look it, by beginning of second season.

    There are so many pathogens around now that sometimes the best guide to what hives might have the lowest levels and should be used as cell raisers, is just the vibes the hive gives off. Some hives have an energy and vitality, against other hives that seem listless in comparison. Those high energy, go getter, type hives, will likely raise the longest lived queens.

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  3. #82
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    3 or 4 years for the lifespan of a colony of bees? The queen , maybe.

    Perhaps I am living in the past, but with a little care the lifespan of a hive of bees should be almost unlimited. Back in my first incarnation as a beekeeper (before mites) I had hives that would have the boxes disintegrate before the colony died. I almost never re-queened. The bees did a fine job of that on their own. I managed the hives, but unless a colony was a poor performer I let them take care of business.

    Now, with proper management and mite mitigation the same should be true.

  4. #83
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
    Now, with proper management and mite mitigation the same should be true.
    But it isn't. If you are treating your bees then two years is about all you can expect. If you plan on letting your treated hives raise their own queens I think you will run into problems.

    Buying queens from queen breeders is something else. I don't think they are so heavily treated.
    Last edited by Acebird; 09-27-2015 at 05:18 AM.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #84
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    . If you are treating your bees then two years is about all you can expect. .
    I will find out.
    After several years of disaster Treatment Free, I am now using OAV. I'll let you know in a couple years.

  6. #85
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Acebird wrote:

    But it isn't. If you are treating your bees then two years is about all you can expect. If you plan on letting your treated hives raise their own queens I think you will run into problems.
    I don't think this is true and it has not been my experience, so far. I don't think there is anything special about my bees, and I am a beekeeper of very modest experience (just ending my third year). But I do treat to control varroa, and that makes all the difference - my bees, both queens and colones, have already exceeded your estimated life span. And they show no sign of petering out.

    Perhaps you meant to write "........ If you are NOT treating your bees then two years is about all you can expect"? (my emphasis added).

    The idea that failing to treat results in longer-lived colonies is just not borne out in my part of NY. What's the basis of your belief that treatment yields shorter life spans?

    Enj.

  7. #86
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    But it isn't. If you are treating your bees then two years is about all you can expect. If you plan on letting your treated hives raise their own queens I think you will run into problems.
    And how long have your untreated ones survived? What causes this 2nd year death of treated colonies? We're all dying to know how a 0-3 hive non-treating beekeeper knows this to be the case.

  8. #87

    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    If you are treating your bees then two years is about all you can expect. If you plan on letting your treated hives raise their own queens I think you will run into problems.
    Why do you feel the need to make this sort of tripe up? If everybody just invents 'facts' to suit their opinions Beesource would be worthless.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  9. #88
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Why do you feel the need to make this sort of tripe up?
    Dan, how often do you replace your queens and what do you replace them with? Judging from what I read hear on BS beekeepers that have money at stake they are replacing queens within two years, some do it every year. I can only assume that the chemicals are taking a toll on the queen where the third year is a crap shoot. I do not posses the ability to find a queen so I don't know how long my queens last before they are superceded. But it has been said prior to fighting varora queens could last 4 or 5 years. Isn't it a logical conclusion that the scheduled treatments have some side effect that is not immediate?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #89

    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    I rarely replace any queens. I have colonies that are ten years old that have replaced their own queens as needed...with success. I've had queens that I knew were in their fourth season (marked) before they were superceded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Judging from what I read hear on BS.....I can only assume.....Isn't it a logical conclusion
    And from your translation of what you've read on Beesource, your assumptions and conclusions, you believe you can make statements of 'fact'?
    OK...I've got to go. It's a bit before 8am on Sunday and I've got a hundred mile drive and a river to cross so that I can do my second treatment on my mountain hives.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  11. #90
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    There are a lot of conclusions that could be made from a string of "facts" (facts is in quotes since you stated nothing more than hearsay). Isn't it possible that queens lasted longer before Varroa presence, with treatment a demonstrated way to increase hive longevity now? (Again, assuming there is any basis in the "facts" presented.)

  12. #91
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Isn't it a logical conclusion that the scheduled treatments have some side effect that is not immediate?
    The concensus is that your queens are being replaced every 6-8 months. Since you don't look at your bees you'll never see that happening and will pretent that your queens last "years".

    How can you possibly believe your 0-3 hives can in anyway be translated to guys running commercial operations making their livelihood from their operations? The ego...

    If Ace's bees don't make honey and die during winter it is just Ace's average and he shakes a new package in. If beemandan failed at your rate, Ace, he probably would have been out of beekeeping decades ago.

  13. #92
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    And from your translation of what you've read on Beesource, your assumptions and conclusions, you believe you can make statements of 'fact'?
    Dan, take a look at this website.

    http://www.waywordradio.org/can-facts-be-false/

    The irony of the web cast is they speak of words changing meanings over time and I actually remember learning the distinction between fact and opinion back in the third grade. I was taught exactly as the teacher is teaching the child... and that was well over 50 years ago.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #93
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by jwcarlson View Post
    How many people are averaging 3-4 years per colony TF? Average across the apiary...
    I've been able to get 2 or 3 productive seasons out of most and have a few hives that have done well for 5 years.


    Don

  15. #94
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    And you are treatment free Don? That is what I see reported for people that treat so it is hard to tell what difference the treating is making unless you are measuring pounds of honey.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  16. #95
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    I treat my bees with OAV, which is supposed to have little effect on the bees. I believe what Brian says about treatment shortening the life of queens however. Mites do too. I lost both of my hives to mites (I believe) the first year. Since then I have only lost 2 hives and I don't believe that was the fault of mites, but the fault of a clumsy beekeeper.

    I have lost 3 queens in addition to those 2 hives. I feel certain that the queens have a shorter life than I was taught to expect in bee school.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-28-2015 at 07:02 AM. Reason: remove deleted quote

  17. #96

    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by dsegrest View Post
    I believe what Brian says about treatment shortening the life of queens however. Mites do too.
    There aren't many who would disagree with the idea that anything that adds stress reduces the lifespan of every bee in the hive....queen included. I'm glad you added that 'mites do too'.
    Brian suggests that only treated bees have these shortened life spans. And worse...he puts a number to it, making it appear as though it came from some reliable source.

    I would suggest that bees in varroa infested hives have greatly reduced life spans as well.....but I won't invent a number to support my opinion.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  18. #97
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    There aren't many who would disagree with the idea that anything that adds stress reduces the lifespan of every bee in the hive....queen included. I'm glad you added that 'mites do too'.
    Brian suggests that only treated bees have these shortened life spans. And worse...he puts a number to it, making it appear as though it came from some reliable source.

    I would suggest that bees in varroa infested hives have greatly reduced life spans as well.....but I won't invent a number to support my opinion.
    Let's face it any information gleaned from production hives by producers is "anecdotal". Unfortunately the information gained by researchers in carefully controlled situations is artificial. By combining both approaches, we get a pretty good idea of what's happening, but only the bees really know, and they won't tell.

  19. #98
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Brian suggests that only treated bees have these shortened life spans.
    Now Dan this is just another case where people try to speak for me, or worse they pass it through their filter and only hear what they think I said.

    Never did I say mites don't shorten bees lifespan. What they will do is kill off the bees that do not find a way to survive them. The survivors are the winners.

    BTW the hive that came from a package (almonds) is now raining down mites and the split I made from my surviving hive is not. It wouldn't surprise me if the package doesn't make it through the winter. Yes, it is just anecdotal comparisons but there is no getting around it the package hive is a mite bomb within 16 inches of my other two hives. We will see what happens in the spring.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #99

    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Never did I say mites don't shorten bees lifespan.
    No...you didn't state it...you conveniently ignored it. Pretty much the same.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  21. #100
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    Default Re: The Mighty Mite Bomb...

    dsegrest, when you say you lost 3 queens, did the hives go suddenly queenless or did they supersede? If the bees decide to replace their queen that is a normal behavior, although if it is happening every year that is unusual. But if the queens are just dying that is cause for concern.

    Brian, am I correct that you are saying a treated colony will die after 2 years? Not that the bees will replace their queen, but the whole hive will die after 2 years?

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