Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees
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  1. #1
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    Default Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    I know very little about them, in fact, I didn't even know they existed until just recently. Jean-Marc (member here) works with them in Canada, but I've never come across them in the United States.

    I'd like to discuss Caspian bees in this thread. What do you know?

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Caspian Bees, Or Caspian solution? Do not know that Caspian bees are nothing more than our feral mutts. I would like to see some tractable genetic profiles. or well documented research. They may be all that is claimed, I do not know anyone who has real world experience to relate. Other than claims made by Hussein's representative.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Apis mellifera meda?

    Wayne

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by waynesgarden View Post
    Apis mellifera meda?

    Wayne
    That might be what is being referred to as Caspian bees. I thought they might descend through the caucasian line, since they were described to me as being very docile, and easy to work with.

    But honestly, I'm completely ignorant on the subject.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    I believe Robert Russell did the definitive genetic study on them and developed them into the super bee they are today.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Robert Russell had nothing to do with Caspian bees. Let`s be clear on this point. Caspian bees are Apis mellifera mellifera based on cubital index measurements. They are however very gentle. The line was developed in sync with Caspian solution production.

    Jean-Marc

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    If I remember correctly , Dave Miksa in Fl was has caspians for sale last year.
    Nick
    gridleyhollow.com

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by funwithbees View Post
    If I remember correctly , Dave Miksa in Fl was has caspians for sale last year.
    Nick
    gridleyhollow.com
    Thanks for the heads-up, he's in my neck of the woods so I sent him a an email, asking about Caspians.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    Robert Russell had nothing to do with Caspian bees. Let`s be clear on this point. Caspian bees are Apis mellifera mellifera based on cubital index measurements. They are however very gentle. The line was developed in sync with Caspian solution production.

    Jean-Marc
    Jean-Marc, do Caspians exhibit any hygienic behavior? Are they more, or less, resistant to typical bee problems?

    Since they are probably somewhat related to caucasian bees, do they exhibit any of the common traits of that line?

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    I don't know much. Bought some Caspian cells from Miksa last summer to try them out. I like what I've seen. Dark stripers mostly with some yellow stripers. The yellow is more orange than yellow. I wintered them in nuclei. I think they are among the best queens from last summer. I used one very impressive daughter as a breeder for the last few weeks, and just caught the first daughters today. Again...mostly dark stripers with orange highlights. Many laying well in the mating nucs.

    Miksa's stock comes from a breeder in British Colombia. Perhaps Jean-Marc knows more about that. Miksa told me they may be a Buckfast line.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    The line was developed in sync with Caspian solution production. Jean-Marc
    What does Caspian Solution have to do with it?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Dave Miksa had some last year. That is correct. Caspian bees build very fast in the spring unlike caucasians. They had to because they survived in harsh high elevation conditions. They brood up nice even under cold conditions.

    Jean-Marc

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    ... Miksa told me they may be a Buckfast line.
    That's odd, since Buckfast bees can be fairly aggressive. But what do I know. I didn't even know about Caspians before Jean-Marc mentioned them. Maybe Mr. Miksa can help me out. He's in Florida and I'm in Georgia, so he's fairly close.

    Do Caspians demonstrate any hygienic traits?

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Mike, they are not a Buckfast line... nothing to do with them. Developed by different guys at different times in different places.
    Hossein or Caspian Apiaries, developed Caspian solution and the Caspian bees. He has a unique selection plan. It is part of the production of caspian solution. It kinda goes hand in hand.

    In broad strokes queens are removed from possible breeders and made into nucs. The rest of the population is divided into 4 frame nucs. frames of eggs and larvae are added. When the bees cap the larvae those frames are removed, other frames of egg and larvae are added. Keep doing this until bees are exhausted. Best bees can do this 3 to 3.5 times. Some bees when made queenless suicide... they just fly off never to return. Sorry boys from down under but that is what we see. Others next door can do 1-1.5 frames... North American stock can do this 2 maybe 2.5 times. Caspian 3-3.5.

    There are other selection methods that he has but they all point to the same answer. It boils down to the ability of the bees to collect pollen, store it, turn it into jelly to fed larvae to make bees... in a nutshell. These bees are the best at it. They may not be the best bees in the world, but they are not number 5 either. They are simply better as far as my experience is concerned.

    The bees sent to Dave was a big scramble and little to no effort was made in the selection yet the reports were positive.

    Jean-Marc

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    The bees sent to Dave was a big scramble and little to no effort was made in the selection yet the reports were positive.
    Jean-Marc
    Are breeder available that are properly selected?

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Caspian bees are from Irak. There is a breeder about 2 hours from were I live. They are smaller and can live better with varroa. He says that before he had 20% winter loss and now has 3%.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Perfect! Now we have another line of bees to deal with the mites.
    Is this line a different type of bee or a decedent of the carnis?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Caspian is from Iran. They may or may not live better with varroa. Hossein makes no such claims. He did have some lines that were better but they are hard to keep going. If anything the bees are bigger. I think if memory serves me right they build cells at 5.4 mm hence bigger. Said breeder got them from Hossein. We work with him. Nice to hear his losses were lowered.

    Jean-Marc

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    The bees are Apis mellifera mellifera... not carnies, not caucasians. He called them Caspian likely because of strong nationalistic tendencies. They are good bees.

    Jean-Marc

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Caspian bees - I'd like to learn more about this line of bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    I believe Robert Russell did the definitive genetic study on them and developed them into the super bee they are today.
    Ha Ha that was pretty funny Vance.

    But thanks Jean-Marc for elaborating. If MP likes them they must be good.

    Kinda frustrating for me in the South Pacific, always reading on Beesource about these bee strains I would love to get my hands on, but can't.

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