Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"
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  1. #1
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    Default Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    Hello everyone,

    This may sound silly to ask this question....

    But on a funnel to put on a trapout, whether it be a cone excluder outside the hive or inside a Hogan style trap, what size should the tip be? I have heard pencil sized and then heard 3/8". There is a difference there. I have both and checked it. As a new keeper, I am not terribly familiar with the size needed for a bee to drag a dead drone out yet keep in a queen.

    I have some old fiberglass screen that I made one out of yesterday for a Hogan trap. I have a week wait to get in my order for hardware cloth at the hardware store. I wrapped the fiberglass screen around the pencil and placed it through the 1-1/2" opening if my tunnel. The 3/8" dowel rod is obviously larger.

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    3/8 is what you want. Too small an opening and you'll never trap the queen.

  4. #3
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    May 2015
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    Newton Co, MO, United States
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    I'm a little confused. I thought the cone was supposed to be too small for the queen. Add the cone after you think the queen has come into your trap. Do I have this wrong?

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    You don't swap cone sizes you use only one size 3/8. The idea is to allow large enough opening to allow the queen to pass through it. Use the search engine and search for Hogan traps there is all the info you'll ever need.

  6. #5
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    May 2015
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. Perhaps I didn't state it clearly. I'm not swapping cones. I am waiting on real metal hardware cloth.

    As I understand the Hogan method, if it is an elimination trapping and he is going for the queen, he sets the trap on withOUT the screen cone for the first 24-36 hrs. Then, look for the queen(she will likely be in there laying) and then activate the trap by diverting through the cone or putting it on, however it is setup in your trap. This will allow all other bees to exit but exclude her from running back in. Believe you me, I have been reading all "Hogan" threads I can find and making documents of it. Interestingly enough, the search feature hasn't been as helpful as actually backing up to the last page of all the posts in Swarm forum and slowly, laboriously search through them all.

    But when I watched a video of Iddee, he stated using a pencil to make the opening size to wrap the screen. I don't know if he expected it to open slightly and thus leave you with 3/8" or he meant it to be that small. I know the "bee space" is 3/8", but wasn't sure if that is what we are striving for with the trap or not with the opening.


    06-07-2012, 05:56 PM #11 Cleo C. Hogan Jr Cleo C. Hogan Jr is offline
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    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree
    The only thing I would have done differently, is not install the funnel for a couple days after the introduction of the unsealed brood. I don't think I have ever had a queen come into the box after the funnel has been activated.

    I leave the end of the tunnel open until I either get the queen, or get enough bees to take and make a new colony. Then trap again to get her.
    Last edited by jamman; 05-29-2015 at 01:57 PM.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    Understood. Sounds like you have it figured out.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC USA
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    The iddee method and the hogan method are 2 different animals with 2 different goals. The hogan method is for trying to get the queen's genetics from the trap. IE: the queen. The colony may be left to provide more queens later.


    The iddee method is for getting support bees to raise a queen from your favorite hive, thus increasing your favorite genetics, while abolishing the hive from it's location. IE: removing the colony.

    With the iddee method, the opening in the cone is not precise. It can be from 3/8 to 1/2 in, or even a bit larger.

    Iddee's method
    http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/f...opic,29.0.html

    Hogan's method
    http://honey-sun.com/tech-tools/hogans-bee-trap/

  9. #8
    Join Date
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    Location
    Saint-Denis de La Réunion (France Indian Ocean)
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    Quote Originally Posted by jamman View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to reply to my question. Perhaps I didn't state it clearly. I'm not swapping cones. I am waiting on real metal hardware cloth.

    As I understand the Hogan method, if it is an elimination trapping and he is going for the queen, he sets the trap on withOUT the screen cone for the first 24-36 hrs. Then, look for the queen(she will likely be in there laying) and then activate the trap by diverting through the cone or putting it on, however it is setup in your trap. This will allow all other bees to exit but exclude her from running back in. Believe you me, I have been reading all "Hogan" threads I can find and making documents of it. Interestingly enough, the search feature hasn't been as helpful as actually backing up to the last page of all the posts in Swarm forum and slowly, laboriously search through them all.

    But when I watched a video of Iddee, he stated using a pencil to make the opening size to wrap the screen. I don't know if he expected it to open slightly and thus leave you with 3/8" or he meant it to be that small. I know the "bee space" is 3/8", but wasn't sure if that is what we are striving for with the trap or not with the opening.
    the "Cone" method was firstly described inbulletin 138 of Agricultural Experiment Station, University of Missouri--Columbia 1915
    but one found a better description in 1918 Farmers' Bulletin, Num. 961 :TRANSFERRING BEES TO MODERN HIVES par E. L. SECHRIST Apicultural Assistant

    The way the cone works is not a mechanical one way out but a scent lure, the hive scent is stronger at the base of the cone than at the tip. The cone has to be sufficiently long to work. (~20cm) (or ~8' in farenheitish).

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Cone opening size - Pencil size or 3/8"

    I always try to make it about 3/8". I also try to fray it a bit at the tip. The wires keep the returning bees from getting in, while letting the drones out. Sort of like a porter bee escape in three dimensions. What you DON'T want is some drone getting stuck in it or all the workers finding their way back in.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

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