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Successful Queen Introduction tips.

164K views 145 replies 73 participants last post by  HarryVanderpool 
#1 ·
Have you seen the movie, "Groundhog Day"?
It is a comedy about a fellow that wakes up every day and it is the exact same day as yesterday.

Well it's Groundhog day once again on BeeSource because just like every year, it is story after story after tear-jerking sob story about queens not being accepted.
But for me, as the poster describes their procedure, it is no surprise whatsoever.

First let me say that I have installed several boxes of queens (hundreds) so far this year.
Exactly one (1) has not been accepted.

The first thing that you need to know is that the advice and procedures in almost all of the books is VERY, VERY POOR!
And the information in the books is just repeated, over and over, book after book, never questioned and in my opinion and experience almost assures high failure rate.

Before we talk procedure, let me tell you how VERY GRATEFUL I am for my mentor, Kenny Williams of Oregon that taught me how to have a 98% annual acceptance rate for queen acceptance.
When I was new and asked him questions, he often replied with a question.

Example: "Kenny, should I poke a hole in the candy plug with a nail"?
"Why would you want to do that"? he asks in reply.
"Well, so that the queen can be released sooner" I respond.
"Why would you want the queen to be released sooner than later", he asks?

The answer is: YOU DO NOT want the queen released in any big hurry!!!
What we want is to pull the cork from the candy plug, place the queen cage between frames of mixed brood, or in the case of a package, centered and then LEAVE THE HIVE ALONE so that the queen can emerge in the dark, still and quiet of the hive, having had the extended time release of the candy plug to aquint the bees with her pheromone.

Over and over and over and over I read, "I went back 2 or 4 days later to make sure the queen was released, and now I'm queenless"

Again, WHY are you worried that the queen will not be released? Why?
The queen WILL be released. Stay out of the hive!

If a queen is not released, or is found dead later in the cage, it is for a few reasons:
1) she died
2) your package had a queen in the population
3)she was a spent virgin.

In 25 years of beekeeping, and thousands upon thousands of queen introductions, this has happened maybe twice.

Do you want a 98% queen acceptance rate? Here are some PROVEN tips:

1) Do not poke a hole in the candy plug.
2) Always place the cage between frames of mixed, open brood (where the nurse bees are that are much more inclined to accept and care for her. Re-queen, drone layer replacement, laying worker, or hive start-up; all the same. Place her with brood and nurse bees. In the case of packages, just hang her centered in the hive.
3) Fill the feeder with syrup.
4) Place a piece of masking tape on the corner of the hive with the date she was introduced an DO NOT TOUCH the hive for at least 10 days other than to quietly fill the feeder without shuffling frames or otherwise making a disruption.
5) After 10 or better yet 14 days, gently move through the hive frame by frame until you find the empty cage. Remove the cage and then reverse one frame with the dent left from the cage. They will almost always repair the dent with worker cells if you do this.

So that is it. The problem that I read day after excruciating day her on Beesource is excess, needless micro-managing and cockamamie monkey-motion.
I read books. I have an extensive beekeeping library.
But when it comes to queen introduction, almost all the books give TERRIBLE advice.

I never direct release. (no need to)
No push-in cages.
No monkey-motion.

So here is a report:
Today, I went to a yard of 64 hives that were all hard splits. (Hives directly split in half.)
The splits were made on April 17th. Today is May 8th.
I never returned to the hives after queen intro on April 17th.
ALL of the queens were accepted.
All I did today was to remove the cages and reverse one frame with the dent.

Every year I shake packages for myself to start brand new hives.
Last weekend I queen-checked 32 hives that started as packages on April 5th.
After installing packages, I only returned to the hives on multiple times to quietly slide the lid aside and fill feeders.
ALL of the queens were accepted.
They were accepted using the time honored candy, time-release method and most important; NO DISRUPTION for the initial period.

Ever heard of K.I.S.S.? That stands for "Keep it simple stupid!

I hope that those of you that have been bamboozled by the cockamamie, monkey-motion procedures outlined in "the books" will try our procedure next time.
And I am open for any questions.
:)
 
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#141 ·
Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

So, I'm an idiot. Tried to slow a crazy fast colony down by shaking some bees into a 2 frame nuc. I was sure I knew where the queen was. You know the rest of the story. She's now in the nuc, happily laying as fast as ever. I removed all the newly built queen cells in the original colony, since I want this one back in there. Is there a best practice in this case? She's been out of there for 6 days. Will they receive her without a formal introduction? Should I bring her back with her 2 frames from the nuc and remove a couple of frames of capped brood or stores. Thanks for helping me fix this! Be gentle. It's my first post!
 
#143 ·
@HarryVanderpool This has been very educational especially for candy release, I have three packages arriving early April, and will follow your suggestions.

My question is about queen cell introduction to a Nuc from a graft. I will take a frame of capped brood, frame of honey/bee bread, and frame of foundation all from a strong colony for the Nuc.

1. Should I introduce the queen cell as soon as I have built the Nuc, or wait 12-24 hours?
2. Should I place the cell in a plastic cell protector before putting in the Nuc?
3. How long before first inspection of the Nuc?

Will place Nuc some distance from donor hive, most likely about 20-40 ft away.

Thank you for any correspondence you can give.
 
#144 · (Edited)
The experiences with healing people with COPD ( Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease ) show me one important thing - I was discovered (as ICU and anesthesiology physician in learning process) that exceed CO2 level is not damaging organs(usually) and cells but only lack of oxygen is harmful.
CO2 just provoke acidosis which change Nero-cells activity in the way what make ill human more sleeping and getting unresponsive to the stimulation in the end.
Then (many years later) I had a problem with acceptance of new cordovan bee queen which I bought in U.S. I just needed her and her offspring only to take some good looking photos and off course because my curiosity.
(i didn't have any conventional beehive so I couldn't use a pupae frame and isolation).
The acceptance wasn't full for prolonged time, some workers were still aggressive towards to the queen. So I was really afraid to loos her. The part of the season wasn't conductive - there was a too little time to cold period of the year.
I started to thinking how decrease the memory of the workers and then I found a solution what was successful also many times after.
I remembered to my self the COPD and CO2 "Narcosis" and artificial insemination method!
At night (when all bees are inside the hive) I put the all hive to the plastic bag and I put the gas(co2) in there.
I was waiting until all bees were immobilized. Then I put the queen - also under narcosis just on the lying- sleeping bees.
Gently put the hive in its previous place. After a few whiles the queens and workers ware awaken due the resolution of acidosis (its a while lasting state and can be in fast way reverse when we put the bees to normal air condition, the co2 is very easy diffusive gas).
The bees seems to loos all their memory , most of the bees have to start orientation flight next day, because they didn't remembered their hive location. This is very good situation to the queen. Bees as whole swarm had accepted queen just after were awaken, she also start brooding next day.

Physiological state of workers seems to be changed - the workers live shorter time than average, because they increase their metabolism I suspect (it make change to the overwintering bees or swarming bees), but queen is untouched by this method.

Very important thing is that all bees should be immobilized with CO2, if some aggressive individual will not - queen can be killed, despite narcosis of all others colony members.

That's are my observation.

Christopher
 
#145 ·
Have you seen the movie, "Groundhog Day"?
It is a comedy about a fellow that wakes up every day and it is the exact same day as yesterday.

Well it's Groundhog day once again on BeeSource because just like every year, it is story after story after tear-jerking sob story about queens not being accepted.
But for me, as the poster describes their procedure, it is no surprise whatsoever.

First let me say that I have installed several boxes of queens (hundreds) so far this year.
Exactly one (1) has not been accepted.

The first thing that you need to know is that the advice and procedures in almost all of the books is VERY, VERY POOR!
And the information in the books is just repeated, over and over, book after book, never questioned and in my opinion and experience almost assures high failure rate.

Before we talk procedure, let me tell you how VERY GRATEFUL I am for my mentor, Kenny Williams of Oregon that taught me how to have a 98% annual acceptance rate for queen acceptance.
When I was new and asked him questions, he often replied with a question.

Example: "Kenny, should I poke a hole in the candy plug with a nail"?
"Why would you want to do that"? he asks in reply.
"Well, so that the queen can be released sooner" I respond.
"Why would you want the queen to be released sooner than later", he asks?

The answer is: YOU DO NOT want the queen released in any big hurry!!!
What we want is to pull the cork from the candy plug, place the queen cage between frames of mixed brood, or in the case of a package, centered and then LEAVE THE HIVE ALONE so that the queen can emerge in the dark, still and quiet of the hive, having had the extended time release of the candy plug to aquint the bees with her pheromone.

Over and over and over and over I read, "I went back 2 or 4 days later to make sure the queen was released, and now I'm queenless"

Again, WHY are you worried that the queen will not be released? Why?
The queen WILL be released. Stay out of the hive!

If a queen is not released, or is found dead later in the cage, it is for a few reasons:
1) she died
2) your package had a queen in the population
3)she was a spent virgin.

In 25 years of beekeeping, and thousands upon thousands of queen introductions, this has happened maybe twice.

Do you want a 98% queen acceptance rate? Here are some PROVEN tips:

1) Do not poke a hole in the candy plug.
2) Always place the cage between frames of mixed, open brood (where the nurse bees are that are much more inclined to accept and care for her. Re-queen, drone layer replacement, laying worker, or hive start-up; all the same. Place her with brood and nurse bees. In the case of packages, just hang her centered in the hive.
3) Fill the feeder with syrup.
4) Place a piece of masking tape on the corner of the hive with the date she was introduced an DO NOT TOUCH the hive for at least 10 days other than to quietly fill the feeder without shuffling frames or otherwise making a disruption.
5) After 10 or better yet 14 days, gently move through the hive frame by frame until you find the empty cage. Remove the cage and then reverse one frame with the dent left from the cage. They will almost always repair the dent with worker cells if you do this.

So that is it. The problem that I read day after excruciating day her on Beesource is excess, needless micro-managing and ****amamie monkey-motion.
I read books. I have an extensive beekeeping library.
But when it comes to queen introduction, almost all the books give TERRIBLE advice.

I never direct release. (no need to)
No push-in cages.
No monkey-motion.

So here is a report:
Today, I went to a yard of 64 hives that were all hard splits. (Hives directly split in half.)
The splits were made on April 17th. Today is May 8th.
I never returned to the hives after queen intro on April 17th.
ALL of the queens were accepted.
All I did today was to remove the cages and reverse one frame with the dent.

Every year I shake packages for myself to start brand new hives.
Last weekend I queen-checked 32 hives that started as packages on April 5th.
After installing packages, I only returned to the hives on multiple times to quietly slide the lid aside and fill feeders.
ALL of the queens were accepted.
They were accepted using the time honored candy, time-release method and most important; NO DISRUPTION for the initial period.

Ever heard of K.I.S.S.? That stands for "Keep it simple stupid!

I hope that those of you that have been bamboozled by the ****amamie, monkey-motion procedures outlined in "the books" will try our procedure next time.
And I am open for any questions.
:)
Thanks but that information is not new as many of us have seen similar suggestions. Perhaps I didn't state my question precisely but I was more interested in reasons why a hive would reject a queen after a couple of tries. I have been a bookkeeper for over a decade and other than mites and disease have not found a good answer.
Thanks
 
#146 ·
.....interested in reasons why a hive would reject a queen after a couple of tries. I have been a bookkeeper for over a decade and other than mites and disease have not found a good answer.
Thanks
List of possible reasons:
1) There is an old, non-laying queen in the hive.
2) The hive has laying workers.
3) Remaining bees in the hive are all old.
4) Faulty queen introduction technique. (common)
5) Rifling around in the hive too soon and the new queen getting balled. (common)

I suggest in any event, (other than an old queen present), that you go to another strong hive and pull two frames of mixed brood WITH adhering bees, place them dead center position in the hive to be requeened and place the queen cage for candy release. STAY OUT of the hive for at least 10 days.
 
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