Successful Queen Introduction tips. - Page 7

# Thread: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

1. Join Date
Aug 2014
Location
England, UK
Posts
1,635

## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by Daniel Y
So although I am not really a fan of statistics myself. I certainly prefer them to your completely made up and ludicrous data.
I was trying to make a point by analogy, that's all, nothing more than that. I really didn't expect anyone to make literal interpretations.

There is an ongoing problem with queen introduction - the very existence of this thread confirms that. Will a recommendation to "do as I do to achieve the same percentage results" help ? Sadly, despite the good intentions of doing so, I suspect not - for in my experience people only 'read the manual'/ seek advice etc., after they've screwed-up. In such an event, the statistics of an experienced beekeeper's success has little relevance. Wish it were otherwise.
LJ

2.

3. Join Date
Jan 2003
Location
Suffolk, VA
Posts
4,214

## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by little_john
Statistics are so often used to support arguments - but I wonder how useful statistics really are in our everyday lives ?

Take for example weather forecasters: "there's a 80% chance of rain". Now from a remote academic perspective, that statement may indeed have some relevance - but for the individual farmer who's trying to decide whether to spray or not, or for a person who's concerned about whether to wear a raincoat that day - then it's either going to rain, or it's not going to rain. And that's a 50/50 binary situation from their point of view - for those 'on the ground', as it were.

Perhaps a better example would be crossing the road. In a remote rural area, such as where I live, I think it would be fair to say that there's probably a 98% (or thereabouts) chance of crossing the road without injury with your eyes tightly shut. So - should we then disregard the normal practice of looking-out for traffic before we cross such a road ? Isn't it far better to make a check, even though for 98% of the time, that check proves to be unnecessary ?

As I see it, it's the same when introducing mated queens. I'm sure you're absolutely right, from a statistical point-of-view, and this will no doubt be relevant for those introducing large numbers of queens, when a tiny percentage of failures can be offset against the not inconsiderable time needed to make individual checks on such large numbers. But what of the small-scale beekeeper who is about to introduce just one or two queens, or someone who has made a very expensive purchase, and for whom failure isn't considered to be an acceptable option ? Isn't it then far wiser for that person to make a simple check for acceptance before either directly releasing, or before allowing the candy to be accessed ? It's such a simple thing to do (like checking for traffic before crossing the road) in order to avoid becoming that 1 or 2% statistic.
LJ
The abuse of statistics stems mostly from a lack of true understanding on the subject, or from someone desperately trying to influence a discussion with a bogus assessment of the data. I see neither in the posts offered by Harry. He is simply trying to cast some best practices into an area of beekeeping that is rife with conjecture and misunderstandings. Agree with his suggestions or not, but no need throw "statistics" into the mix.

4. Join Date
Jan 2003
Location
Suffolk, VA
Posts
4,214

## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by little_john
Will a recommendation to "do as I do to achieve the same percentage results" help ? Sadly, despite the good intentions of doing so, I suspect not - for in my experience people only 'read the manual'/ seek advice etc., after they've screwed-up. In such an event, the statistics of an experienced beekeeper's success has little relevance. Wish it were otherwise.
LJ
But isn't sharing our experiences on what works and was doesn't the primary point of having beesource? Just because some idiot doesn't want to "read the manual" doesn't imply that it shouldn't be written.

5. ## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

Doesn't one of the posters use a tag line to the effect of "if you want to be successful, do what sucessful people do"? I find that to be very good advice. Won't guarantee success, but it is a heck of a good place to start.

6. ## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

I am really grateful that Kenny Williams took the time to pass along his successful queen introduction tips to me.
He could have chose to just keep them to himself.
In this thread I have passed them on .
No one is shoving anything down your throat.
You are free to introduce queens anyway you want.
However you proceed, I hope things work out well for you and your operation.

7. ## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

Statistics are fine when included as a part of general context.
That's the premise.
Reasonably large sample size is one part of such context, for an example.
Say, 10-100 queens is a reasonable enough size.

Yes, IF you intro 10-100 queens and IF your conditions are confirmed similar to those who published the stats then you may depend on the statistical prediction of your acceptance success. This also helps out with the efficiency IF your context feels compatible to that of the published stats.

Otherwise, assumed statistical outcome is misleading. So why argue?
If you purchased ONE queen - forget the stats totally.
It safest to just assume you are totally out of statistical context.
The stats don't apply to you.
Take all precautions.

8. Join Date
Jul 2019
Location
Naples fl.
Posts
2

## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

I just release ( tried ) a queen into a nuc that has her colony in it. she took a few steps and flew away
She coming back ?

9. snl
Join Date
Nov 2009
Location
Manning, SC
Posts
5,219

## Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by PROOT
I just release ( tried ) a queen into a nuc that has her colony in it. she took a few steps and flew away
She coming back ?
I’m confused, what did you do and why?

10. Join Date
Jul 2019
Location
Naples fl.
Posts
2
Captured a colony from a sprinkler box, brought back to my ranch 10 miles away, when I released the queen from the catcher she walked a frame then took off.

11. Join Date
Jun 2011
Location
Keene, New Hampshire, USA
Posts
206

## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

I requeened 12 colonies to get new genetics and did as suggested. I went back in after 12 days and all twelve queens had been released and accepted. I'm a believer.

12. Join Date
Sep 2019
Location
Long Beach, California, USA
Posts
1

## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

What an excellent thread, with a lot of helpful information. In Los Angeles area, where I’m at, I’ve heard that 80% of the feral bees have Africanized genetics. A person on the thread noted the difficulties with queen acceptance in areas where Africanized genetics are found. Hopefully, in time, the success rate with be similarly impressive for bees with Africanized genetics.

13. Join Date
Aug 2019
Location
Durham, NC
Posts
14

## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

This post has great info in it for re queening. I don't even own a bee yet. My plan is to buy a couple of italian packages in the spring, but I want to use Beeweaver queens. Beeweaver is not shipping packages or I would just do that. I was just going to put the Italian packages in minus the queen, then add the beeweaver queen. Will this method work the same for what I'm planning to do? Thanks

14. ## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by Azureus
What an excellent thread, with a lot of helpful information. In Los Angeles area, where I’m at, I’ve heard that 80% of the feral bees have Africanized genetics. A person on the thread noted the difficulties with queen acceptance in areas where Africanized genetics are found. Hopefully, in time, the success rate with be similarly impressive for bees with Africanized genetics.
I don't want to contradict a fellow beekeepers advise or experience but here's mine:
Several years ago I had the memorable (ugly) experience of requeening a bunch of hybrids that were highly africanized.
Prior to beginning work I contacted Dr. Ramesh Sagili at Oregon State University, formerly of Texas A&M.
He told me to requeen them in my normal manner.
The work was total fire and brimstone, hell on earth.
I dressed like an astronaut and plowed through wondering, "With the bees tearing me up this violently; how can the new queens make it"?
I pinched the old and placed the new queens in their cages for candy release on the spot.
There was no problem with acceptance.
And it was GOOD RIDDANCE to those ugly genetics a couple of months later!

15. snl
Join Date
Nov 2009
Location
Manning, SC
Posts
5,219

## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool
I pinched the old and placed the new queens in their cages for candy release on the spot.
Harry, are you saying when you pinched the old queen, you put her back in the cage with the new queen?

16. ## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by snl
Harry, are you saying when you pinched the old queen, you put her back in the cage with the new queen?
NO.
BUT, if I did, it would qualify as an activity that I identified in the original post:
"Cockamamie monkey-motion"

17. ## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by LittleJoe
I was just going to put the Italian packages in minus the queen, then add the beeweaver queen. Will this method work the same for what I'm planning to do? Thanks
There's 1000 ways to cook a pot of soup and most of them taste good to somebody.
Here's a couple of ideas:
So, you're going to buy a couple of packages with queens and buy a couple of preferred queens as well?
If so, you could ask around and sell the package queens easily to a fellow beekeeper.
Another option is to go to your local and State beekeepers meetings and find someone that will shake you a couple of packages of bees with no queens.
Yet another is to install your packages into your hives with the package queens, let the queen lay out several frames and then re-queen the hives with the preferred queens.
In any event, you MUST have a queen present when you install a package of bees in a hive.
So what ever route you take, you MUST have one queen or another to install in the hive along with the bees or you'll likely find an empty hive the next day.
Have fun!!

Timing

18. Join Date
Aug 2019
Location
Durham, NC
Posts
14

## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool
There's 1000 ways to cook a pot of soup and most of them taste good to somebody.
Here's a couple of ideas:
So, you're going to buy a couple of packages with queens and buy a couple of preferred queens as well?
If so, you could ask around and sell the package queens easily to a fellow beekeeper.
Another option is to go to your local and State beekeepers meetings and find someone that will shake you a couple of packages of bees with no queens.
Yet another is to install your packages into your hives with the package queens, let the queen lay out several frames and then re-queen the hives with the preferred queens.
In any event, you MUST have a queen present when you install a package of bees in a hive.
So what ever route you take, you MUST have one queen or another to install in the hive along with the bees or you'll likely find an empty hive the next day.
Have fun!!

Timing

19. Join Date
Jan 2011
Location
Clackamas Oregon
Posts
1,357

## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Couple of weeks ago one of my nucs had no brood but only a single queen cell. I figured it was done. At the bee meeting the speaker announced that he had broke down his observation hive and could not bear to pinch this queen. He asked if I wanted it and when I said yes he pulled her out and handed her to me. He had filled almost the entire section up with fondant. Next morning (Friday October 11 ) I popped open that nuc, first thing found and killed that virgin, gave them a frame of brood from an adjacent hive (throwing good money after bad) and then did what this thread says not to and poked a wire through the 1” of fondant. Now if I would have gone back the next day to check on them it would have been a mistake ‘grand slam’.
I am running a 3 frames (and feeder) over 5 and wondering if I should let them alone or condense them to a single nuc?

20. ## Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

Old queens are too valuable in alcohol to pinch them. Put them in a jar of alcohol... then you can lure swarms out of trees and get cutouts to settle down in the box you are putting them in.

#### Posting Permissions

• You may not post new threads
• You may not post replies
• You may not post attachments
• You may not edit your posts
•