Successful Queen Introduction tips. - Page 7
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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    So although I am not really a fan of statistics myself. I certainly prefer them to your completely made up and ludicrous data.
    I was trying to make a point by analogy, that's all, nothing more than that. I really didn't expect anyone to make literal interpretations.

    There is an ongoing problem with queen introduction - the very existence of this thread confirms that. Will a recommendation to "do as I do to achieve the same percentage results" help ? Sadly, despite the good intentions of doing so, I suspect not - for in my experience people only 'read the manual'/ seek advice etc., after they've screwed-up. In such an event, the statistics of an experienced beekeeper's success has little relevance. Wish it were otherwise.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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  3. #122
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Statistics are so often used to support arguments - but I wonder how useful statistics really are in our everyday lives ?

    Take for example weather forecasters: "there's a 80% chance of rain". Now from a remote academic perspective, that statement may indeed have some relevance - but for the individual farmer who's trying to decide whether to spray or not, or for a person who's concerned about whether to wear a raincoat that day - then it's either going to rain, or it's not going to rain. And that's a 50/50 binary situation from their point of view - for those 'on the ground', as it were.

    Perhaps a better example would be crossing the road. In a remote rural area, such as where I live, I think it would be fair to say that there's probably a 98% (or thereabouts) chance of crossing the road without injury with your eyes tightly shut. So - should we then disregard the normal practice of looking-out for traffic before we cross such a road ? Isn't it far better to make a check, even though for 98% of the time, that check proves to be unnecessary ?

    As I see it, it's the same when introducing mated queens. I'm sure you're absolutely right, from a statistical point-of-view, and this will no doubt be relevant for those introducing large numbers of queens, when a tiny percentage of failures can be offset against the not inconsiderable time needed to make individual checks on such large numbers. But what of the small-scale beekeeper who is about to introduce just one or two queens, or someone who has made a very expensive purchase, and for whom failure isn't considered to be an acceptable option ? Isn't it then far wiser for that person to make a simple check for acceptance before either directly releasing, or before allowing the candy to be accessed ? It's such a simple thing to do (like checking for traffic before crossing the road) in order to avoid becoming that 1 or 2% statistic.
    LJ
    The abuse of statistics stems mostly from a lack of true understanding on the subject, or from someone desperately trying to influence a discussion with a bogus assessment of the data. I see neither in the posts offered by Harry. He is simply trying to cast some best practices into an area of beekeeping that is rife with conjecture and misunderstandings. Agree with his suggestions or not, but no need throw "statistics" into the mix.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  4. #123
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Will a recommendation to "do as I do to achieve the same percentage results" help ? Sadly, despite the good intentions of doing so, I suspect not - for in my experience people only 'read the manual'/ seek advice etc., after they've screwed-up. In such an event, the statistics of an experienced beekeeper's success has little relevance. Wish it were otherwise.
    LJ
    But isn't sharing our experiences on what works and was doesn't the primary point of having beesource? Just because some idiot doesn't want to "read the manual" doesn't imply that it shouldn't be written.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  5. #124
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    Doesn't one of the posters use a tag line to the effect of "if you want to be successful, do what sucessful people do"? I find that to be very good advice. Won't guarantee success, but it is a heck of a good place to start.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  6. #125
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    I am really grateful that Kenny Williams took the time to pass along his successful queen introduction tips to me.
    He could have chose to just keep them to himself.
    In this thread I have passed them on .
    No one is shoving anything down your throat.
    You are free to introduce queens anyway you want.
    However you proceed, I hope things work out well for you and your operation.
    I have exactly ONE more hive than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  7. #126
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    Statistics are fine when included as a part of general context.
    That's the premise.
    Reasonably large sample size is one part of such context, for an example.
    Say, 10-100 queens is a reasonable enough size.

    Yes, IF you intro 10-100 queens and IF your conditions are confirmed similar to those who published the stats then you may depend on the statistical prediction of your acceptance success. This also helps out with the efficiency IF your context feels compatible to that of the published stats.

    Otherwise, assumed statistical outcome is misleading. So why argue?
    If you purchased ONE queen - forget the stats totally.
    It safest to just assume you are totally out of statistical context.
    The stats don't apply to you.
    Take all precautions.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  8. #127
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    I just release ( tried ) a queen into a nuc that has her colony in it. she took a few steps and flew away
    She coming back ?

  9. #128
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    Default Re: Sucsessful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by PROOT View Post
    I just release ( tried ) a queen into a nuc that has her colony in it. she took a few steps and flew away
    She coming back ?
    I’m confused, what did you do and why?
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  10. #129
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    Default

    Captured a colony from a sprinkler box, brought back to my ranch 10 miles away, when I released the queen from the catcher she walked a frame then took off.

  11. #130
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    Keene, New Hampshire, USA
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    I requeened 12 colonies to get new genetics and did as suggested. I went back in after 12 days and all twelve queens had been released and accepted. I'm a believer.

  12. #131
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    What an excellent thread, with a lot of helpful information. In Los Angeles area, where Iím at, Iíve heard that 80% of the feral bees have Africanized genetics. A person on the thread noted the difficulties with queen acceptance in areas where Africanized genetics are found. Hopefully, in time, the success rate with be similarly impressive for bees with Africanized genetics.

  13. #132
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    This post has great info in it for re queening. I don't even own a bee yet. My plan is to buy a couple of italian packages in the spring, but I want to use Beeweaver queens. Beeweaver is not shipping packages or I would just do that. I was just going to put the Italian packages in minus the queen, then add the beeweaver queen. Will this method work the same for what I'm planning to do? Thanks

  14. #133
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azureus View Post
    What an excellent thread, with a lot of helpful information. In Los Angeles area, where Iím at, Iíve heard that 80% of the feral bees have Africanized genetics. A person on the thread noted the difficulties with queen acceptance in areas where Africanized genetics are found. Hopefully, in time, the success rate with be similarly impressive for bees with Africanized genetics.
    I don't want to contradict a fellow beekeepers advise or experience but here's mine:
    Several years ago I had the memorable (ugly) experience of requeening a bunch of hybrids that were highly africanized.
    Prior to beginning work I contacted Dr. Ramesh Sagili at Oregon State University, formerly of Texas A&M.
    He told me to requeen them in my normal manner.
    The work was total fire and brimstone, hell on earth.
    I dressed like an astronaut and plowed through wondering, "With the bees tearing me up this violently; how can the new queens make it"?
    I pinched the old and placed the new queens in their cages for candy release on the spot.
    There was no problem with acceptance.
    And it was GOOD RIDDANCE to those ugly genetics a couple of months later!
    I have exactly ONE more hive than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  15. #134
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    I pinched the old and placed the new queens in their cages for candy release on the spot.
    Harry, are you saying when you pinched the old queen, you put her back in the cage with the new queen?
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  16. #135
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Harry, are you saying when you pinched the old queen, you put her back in the cage with the new queen?
    NO.
    BUT, if I did, it would qualify as an activity that I identified in the original post:
    "Cockamamie monkey-motion"
    I have exactly ONE more hive than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  17. #136
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJoe View Post
    I was just going to put the Italian packages in minus the queen, then add the beeweaver queen. Will this method work the same for what I'm planning to do? Thanks
    There's 1000 ways to cook a pot of soup and most of them taste good to somebody.
    Here's a couple of ideas:
    So, you're going to buy a couple of packages with queens and buy a couple of preferred queens as well?
    If so, you could ask around and sell the package queens easily to a fellow beekeeper.
    Another option is to go to your local and State beekeepers meetings and find someone that will shake you a couple of packages of bees with no queens.
    Yet another is to install your packages into your hives with the package queens, let the queen lay out several frames and then re-queen the hives with the preferred queens.
    In any event, you MUST have a queen present when you install a package of bees in a hive.
    So what ever route you take, you MUST have one queen or another to install in the hive along with the bees or you'll likely find an empty hive the next day.
    Have fun!!

    Timing
    I have exactly ONE more hive than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  18. #137
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    Default Re: Successful Queen Introduction tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    There's 1000 ways to cook a pot of soup and most of them taste good to somebody.
    Here's a couple of ideas:
    So, you're going to buy a couple of packages with queens and buy a couple of preferred queens as well?
    If so, you could ask around and sell the package queens easily to a fellow beekeeper.
    Another option is to go to your local and State beekeepers meetings and find someone that will shake you a couple of packages of bees with no queens.
    Yet another is to install your packages into your hives with the package queens, let the queen lay out several frames and then re-queen the hives with the preferred queens.
    In any event, you MUST have a queen present when you install a package of bees in a hive.
    So what ever route you take, you MUST have one queen or another to install in the hive along with the bees or you'll likely find an empty hive the next day.
    Have fun!!

    Timing
    Thank you, I will follow your advice.

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