Natural Selection Management - Page 16
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  1. #301
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    The complexity and invisibility of natural selection - particularly with honey bees - makes it hard for many to approach. But its there. If you getting working for you it can bring the results you want. Nothing else will, and if you ignore it, or misunderstand or misapply it you will crash.

    Mike UK
    Do you realise what you're saying ? "natural selection" and "the results you want" - together they represent an oxymoron.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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  3. #302
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Do you realise what you're saying ? "natural selection" and "the results you want" - together they represent an oxymoron.
    LJ
    Well, yes and no. The trick is to see how to work with the flow, the 'methods', and the grain of natural selection - to let natural selection do its work and very carefully help it.

    Breeders mimic natural selection (the term 'selection' comes from them - from 'selective breeding')

    Choosing his words carefully and adding 'natural' Darwin carefully considered deploying "Natural 'selection' " to describe the process, but in the end went with the phrase we use today. And it works very well; Nature, through various mechanisms 'selects' the best parents to produce offspring best fitted to the environment in each generation. Of course there is no intentionality in such 'selection': nature is blind and purposeless. But the magic works; and to the extent that you interfere with it you risk the health of your population.

    Its not always easy to speak in terms that convey the live and let die AND breed methods easily. You have use the term natural selection. And you have to use the term breed to do it justice, to convey your meaning. You are doing both.

    Does that make more sense to you?

    Mike (UK)
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  4. #303
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    Default Re: Riverderwent Survival Treatment Free 2017

    Do bear in mind that Darwin's Theory is just that - a theory. It's a lot better than any of the other 'stuff' that's on offer - but it still remains a theory. Charles Darwin's theory, for which we have his grandfather Erasmus to thank of course, has so many holes in it - with the development of wings being perhaps one of the most controversial. But that aside ...

    We humans have taken what we understand to be key principles of the theory, and are now employing these as if human influence can be taken completely out of the equation - and that our objectives are exactly the same as those which would result without our interference. We are engaged in Human Selection, and not the Natural Selection which Darwin described and explained.

    But - with the same supreme human arrogance which once saw our Earth as being at the very centre of the Cosmos, the Creation of which was claimed to have been caused by some quasi-human god-like force which could be influenced by sacrifice or more lately, by prayer - we now manipulate the Earth's environment and the creatures upon it as if we have both the right to do this - and are in possession of the necessary wisdom to successfully pull it off.

    I don't have that much of a problem with this sort of human behaviour, except when it is done whilst marching behind the 'Natural' banner. There's nothing remotely natural about anything related to beekeeping - beginning with the keeping of bees itself; the numbers of colonies per acre; the importation/ exportation of bees into novel areas; the artificial propagation of queens - and then mailing them long distances - the list could become a very long one. And for most of us, not even the environment in which we keep bees could ever be described as anywhere near 'natural'. But 'natural' is one of the really great 'buzz-words', second only perhaps to 'freedom'.

    As 'natural' has such good baggage attached to it, it's a word freely used to gain moral advantage - but please let's not be seduced by such misuse ...

    Of course there is no intentionality in such 'selection': nature is blind and purposeless. But the magic works; and to the extent that you interfere with it you risk the health of your population.
    Nature is purposeless - whereas Humans have an agenda. In the Origin of Species Darwin was describing events which had not been subjected to any kind of human influence - so to continue to use the same terminology is inappropriate, if not dishonest.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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