Booming to dead in 5 weeks - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    5,486

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    I'd suspect lack of carbs. The crusty bees look like a moisture problem

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by DPBsbees View Post
    Viruses due to late in the season mite treatments? Only a couple of them show any visible signs.
    While I may seem fixated on varroa....it is only because I've seen the difference in my colonies when I had mites under control. Night and day. Viruses are only part of the issue. Even without them, varroa would be destructive. When those winter bees are pupating they need every ounce of nutrition to become successful overwintering bees. If they have multiple developing mites feeding on them during that pupation, viruses or not, most won't be healthy enough to survive the rigors of winter....especially a New England winter. Add the viruses and I wonder how any bees survive.
    I have no idea if varroa were the cause of this beekeeper's losses. I do know that way too many beekeepers don't appreciate the impact they have. Way too often there is a lack of understanding about the life cycle interaction between the host and the parasite. It is understandable. The damage is often done in late summer. The symptoms don't show up until winter. There isn't always overt evidence connecting the cause and effect. Often the symptoms of the collapse mask the underlying source.
    Good luck.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
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    2,208

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Sorry for your loss. This year I 2 hives that looked strong and I thought had made it. They had sugar, protein patty and lots of honey stores. Had been varroa treated with MAQS in Aug and OA vapour first week of January. I have no idea why these 2 hives ended up being robbed but they certainly were robbed.
    Your signature says you are treatment free...does OA vapour not count as a treatment modality?
    Janne....first hives April 2013, 19 hives, treat, plant zone 8b, at sea level, latitude 49.13, longitude 123.06

  5. #24

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted adams View Post
    Beemandan; when do you suggest doing mite treatments in Ga with oa
    Ted, I can only say that the mite load should be lowered, significantly before the bees begin producing winter brood. Whatever treatment one might choose should have completed its job, here in the piedmont of Georgia before the end of September. This is just my opinion.
    I don't use oa as a primary prewinter treatment. I do use oav as a midwinter mite knockdown....but that is intended to bring the mite load as low as possible before spring. If I haven't done something effective before then, it would be a waste. Last year I treated in late August/early September with Apiguard.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    5,604

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyeshooter View Post
    .... and moisture boards on top of inner covers entering winter.
    I don't use "moisture boards" so I wonder if you could help me understand what this is. Whatever it is, if it is "above" the inner cover it might not really be helping to reduce condensation forming on the bottom side of the inner cover. There could have been moisture dripping on the bees off the inner cover. That will wipe them out in a hurry in cold weather. Just something else to consider.
    To everything there is a season....

  7. #26

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman View Post
    Seems starvation is not that far out of the relm of reality.
    Far out....maybe not. From a seven year, NH beekeeper who has enough experience to know that they had 'plenty of honey going into cold weather' and now 'most' of the honey was gone.....I'd have to guess that if they'd starved the op wouldn't have posted to begin with.
    Again....I'm not saying that it was mites but if he had huge drops with oav in late September in NH.....those were some damaged winter bees already.
    Just my opinion.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Spencer, MA, USA
    Posts
    2,862

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    I agree with Dan. I use OAV but start in early August and do it 4X a week apart. That's the only way I get good strong winter bees.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    proctorsville, vermont
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    i have had booming hives before and thought I should ad some patties. and then found them soaking wet and dead later. I feel I put moister into the hive when doing so. now if I put any pollen sub or feed of any sort I do it on a warm day and just a spoon full in the hole on the crown board or at the entrance. and have had better luck.
    thats the way i roll.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,625

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    I agree with Dan. I use OAV but start in early August and do it 4X a week apart. That's the only way I get good strong winter bees.
    This has been my experience as well, I also vaporize the four weeks in August and one more time at Thanksgiving and have had excellent results. The only time I have lost a hive was when I began vaporizing at the end of September and went into winter with weakened colonies, I learned my lesson.
    Bill...in Southeast Ohio Zone 6A, Never look down on anybody unless you are helping them up

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cordova, TN, USA
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    327

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Looks like starvation. I use Lauri's sugar blocks on top and all mine made it through the winter. MAQS done in Sept/Oct (it stays hot here until then).

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    13,203

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Maybe the queen got damaged by the OAV treatment. I don't check my bees in Feb but if I did I would be concerned if they were on the cover at that time because it would say to me that they either passed the honey below or ate it all. If you are trying some new management plan don't do it to all your hives. Keep some the old way so you have something to compare to. Most old beekeepers in the north will say prepare your bees for overwintering and then don't touch them until spring (all the snow is gone). The hives that are going to die will die and the ones that will live will live. Nothing you do in the WINTER will increase the ones that will live and most likely will increase the ones that will die.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    10,864

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't check my bees in Feb ....
    Do you check your bees in March, Ace? Are they still alive?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    13,203

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    We are still getting snow and freezing temperatures. The calendar says it is spring but it ain't spring yet.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #34
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    1,694

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman View Post
    Well.... beemandan, he did mention "Most of the honey was gone." Most bees that starve do so in March when there is no foraging/nectar to be had.
    A cold snap... clustered up... couldn't get to the little honey that was left. Seems starvation is not that far out of the relm of reality.
    Those bees did not look like they were clustered.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    10,864

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    The calendar says it is spring but it ain't spring yet.
    I see. But given this ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I clearly did not leave my bees with enough honey. It was assumed that they were queenless and going to die anyway. The first part of winter was very mild and my plan was working but now winter is endless and I am sure my bees are toast.
    ... I would have thought that you might think that checking on your {possibly} remaining hive might be smart - even if just to plan for ordering more bees. But hey ..... whatever floats your boat!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    6,034

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    I see. But given this ....


    ... I would have thought that you might think that checking on your {possibly} remaining hive might be smart - even if just to plan for ordering more bees. But hey ..... whatever floats your boat!
    I hope that people who read Mr. Acebirds posts do their homework rather than taking him at first, second, or third blush. Quintessential forum trap of "well this guy must know what he's doing... 10,000 posts!"

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
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    2,208

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    I post frequently...but as I am new to beekeeping I am usually asking question? There are some very informed folks on this list. Thanks to all of them.
    Janne....first hives April 2013, 19 hives, treat, plant zone 8b, at sea level, latitude 49.13, longitude 123.06

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Spencer, MA, USA
    Posts
    2,862

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by jwcarlson View Post
    I hope that people who read Mr. Acebirds posts do their homework rather than taking him at first, second, or third blush. Quintessential forum trap of "well this guy must know what he's doing... 10,000 posts!"
    That's why he's on my ignore list.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Keene, NH, USA
    Posts
    254

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Thanks for all of the feedback folks! I did have significant mite drop from all of my original OAV treatments in the fall and think that starting this is Aug would have been significantly better. I will definitely do so this year.

    The winter patties I used are from MannLake but I believe are similar to every other vendors offerings. I used them as this is the description they listed: "Our new Pro Winter Patties will provide your colonies with food stores when the bees find the cupboards bare. Pro Winter Patties provide carbohydrates and only a very small amount of protein, so your bees won't be encouraged to start rearing brood too early." The "cupboards bare" wording is what made me think I could feed these in place of honey or sugar as placing a patty was a much quicker in/out time. MannLake mentions these are very sticky because of the high carb content...

    I used homasote moisture boards with entrances routed out as described in this BeeSource post: https://www.beesource.com/forums/arch.../t-234088.html The moisture board entrances were matched to the inner cover entrance.

    I placed the patties in the top bars of the uppermost super with a 1/2" high spacer to keeper the inner cover from contacting the patty, then the moisture board and finally the telescoping cover as described. I, too am wondering (based on the "crispy bee photo) if it would have been better to not use an inner cover and just used the moisture board and telescoping cover. Dean's comment about increased activity creating increased moisture is probably accurate. All hives had a SBB with the mite drop board in place to prevent too much cold ventilation.

    I did just go out and do a quick check on the dead hives. Almost no honey in 2 of the deadouts. Both hives had winter patties added to them in January and again in mid February since they had eaten most of the original patties. Happily, I did discover by quickly opening the hive that was booming a couple of weeks ago that it is still alive with about 1/2 of the population it had.

    I'm putting fondant in both of the surviving hives today. Next winter, sugar blocks on top of the hives and quilt boxes.

    Frustrating in that I thought I was doing what was right but then we all do our best at that. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas.

    John
    11 yrs, TF 6 yrs, moved to OAV in 2014, MAQS 2016. 6 hives and 5 nucs Zone 4B
    www.nhbees.wordpress.com

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    13,203

    Default Re: Booming to dead in 5 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyeshooter View Post
    I did just go out and do a quick check on the dead hives. Almost no honey in 2 of the deadouts. Both hives had winter patties added to them in January and again in mid February since they had eaten most of the original patties. Happily, I did discover by quickly opening the hive that was booming a couple of weeks ago that it is still alive with about 1/2 of the population it had.
    John, can you describe the configuration of the booming hive and how much honey you left them?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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