Whiten up the comb--how to? - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Here is an update, folks.

    After month on My Little Comb Experiment, here are the results so far. I wanted something natural that will not further contaminate the
    comb.
    I put a brood frame that is fairly brown/dark inside a foam cooler and poured
    about 2 bottles of the 32oz H2O2 hydrogen peroxide and 50% water onto the comb.
    After the first week of oxidization the water turned brownish. I did not notice any
    significant change in the comb color on the inside because of the cocoon/casting. On the outer
    edge of the cells on top it appeared to bee a bit clean/whitish. Then I waited another week to do a
    second time experiment with the same comb frame.
    This time I shook all the water out of the comb and put the loose cocoon frame into the hive to be clean out. More than
    80% of the cocoon got clean up. Then I put the same frame into the cooler and gave it 2 more full strength bottles of H2O2 for
    another week. Again the water turn brownish. And more loose cocoon came out of the comb. They swollen up after soaking in
    the water. But the comb did not change shape and appear to be a bit clean/white from the oxidization.
    Interesting notes: The comb did not get damage or out of shape at all. This is an endothermic reaction where the H2O2 solution is cold to the touch. That means the heat is being absorbed by the comb. I did not measure the solution temperature but feels like 20-30F degree colder than the surrounding air temp. The cooler is in tact though.
    The cocoon loosen up after 24 hours and can be remove with a small tweezers though I did not do that. Figured that the bees can do it better. Thanks to the
    tips here.
    After the 2nd trial was done I rinsed out the comb in clean running tap water and shook it dry. And soak up the remaining water with a paper towel.
    Finally to put the comb inside a hive to be clean up by the bees of the remaining cocoons. They did a good job at cleaning up the cells while
    still a bit wet. So how much do you think this comb got whiten up? What can I do to improve on this whitening experiment the next time? What the
    bees will do to this comb inside the hive after a week now?

    Here are the comb and cocoon pics:
    One picture would have been more than enough to show that it didn't work.

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  3. #62
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    Dec 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Because of your positive feedback it makes me think of the 'what if."
    What if there is a way to make the comb whiter? What if there is a way
    to clean up the disease comb. i.e. EFB, etc, etc. Will removing the cocoons
    make the cells a bit larger? Somebody has to do these experiments to find out.
    Ohh, how much fun that was! And learn something on the way too. Whoever has this idea
    the next time can refer to this experiment as well. Maybee they have a better way than I do.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  4. #63
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Sorry BP, but you and I have different connections to the universe. I can't imagine anyone taking up where you left off.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  5. #64
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    Nov 2004
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    Elmira, OR
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    2,136

    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Personally I prefer darker comb in the brood area. It makes inspections easier by simply glancing at comb to see eggs and small larva. New wax mean I have to concentrate unless I'm using black plastic foundation.
    Bruce

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Frankfort, Ohio
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    904

    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Sorry BP, but you and I have different connections to the universe. I can't imagine anyone taking up where you left off.
    Still trying to figure out the point of "white comb" myself...White comb does not mean disease free comb.

  7. #66
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    Oct 2014
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    Hollywood, MD
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    314

    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    beepro, you said it worked and the cells are "whiter" but the pictures all look the same to me. Do you have one of the white foundation afterwards?

    And what's the point of all this anyway? It seems that if someone were to take this up to further the experiment, they must have a goal in mind.

    I'm interested to know what happens when you put the H2O2 impregnated comb back into the hive. I'd recommend NOT.

  8. #67
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    Palos Verdes, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Here are the comb and cocoon pics:
    I would be interested in seeing a comparison between a whitened frame and an unwhitened frame. The same frame in two pictures, days apart, can be misleading unless you have very carefully controlled the lighting and the exposure.

    You could start with three dark frames that are (to your eyes) very similar in color, then treat two of them, then put one of the treated frames back into the hive for final cleanup. Then you'd have 3 to compare: untreated, treated but not cleaned, and treated and cleaned.

    I'd be curious about this, just as a science experiment, even if there is no demonstrable benefit to the bees or beekeeper.
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

  9. #68
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    Athens, OH
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    I don't understand why the OP is not worried by the flouride in the rinse water.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  10. #69
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Sorry BP, but you and I have different connections to the universe.
    An interesting way to put it. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this Beepro guy or girl has a whole lot of time on their hands. Reading about Beepro chasing mites around with a razor blade in his hives DAILY really made me realize how little time I can devote to almost anything in my life. :P

  11. #70
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    Bristol,RI
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwcarlson View Post
    An interesting way to put it. The only conclusion that I can draw is that this Beepro guy or girl has a whole lot of time on their hands. Reading about Beepro chasing mites around with a razor blade in his hives DAILY really made me realize how little time I can devote to almost anything in my life. :P
    and going through how many bottles of bleach trying to whiten a few combs? hehe

  12. #71
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by JakeDatc View Post
    and going through how many bottles of bleach trying to whiten a few combs? hehe
    Not bleach, hydrogen peroxide. The original post said oxalic acid though. Maybe that ate through the foam cooler? We may never know.

  13. #72
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    Madisonville,TN
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    This is an April Fools prank, right? Right? Good one. It is a joke....isn't it?

  14. #73
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    Marshall county, AL
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I'd like to have white bees. Has anyone tried to paint their bees white? If not, I think I will try and see how it works out.
    No but I painted some neon green with a paint marker trying to mark a queen. A big "glob" of paint pen paint spreads quickly in a hive.
    The more I learn about bees, the less I know.

  15. #74
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Regarding to the time element. Well, we all have 24 hrs
    in a day to bee fair. How we use it is up to individual to
    individual. Have you been maximizing your time to enable you to
    do all the fun things you would like? And at the same time allow you to do all the important but necessary things too. I have often wonder how the commercials are able to manage so many hives compare to the sideliners or hobbyist. Ohh, the chasing the mites with a razor blade got turn into an on demand stationary OAV set up now using the everyday household gadgets that anybody has access to. And I got a vid about that too 2 days ago. I PM snl about it that it would put his buzz out of buss so did not publish it. Much fun to see how in 2 minutes the process was completed. And I did not breathe any vapor in or use a mask either. Can you make such a simple set up within the limited time in a day?

    Remember, that this is only an experiment. With experiments we can change things around to fit our situation. Using bleach will put too much residual contamination on the comb. Using OA also too much and in a water solution they will not stick to the comb that well. Actually the OA will separate into a layer to settle down at the bottom of the jar. So not that good on the comb as an oxidizing agent. Using peroxide is much cheaper from the dollar store. Only $6 dollars spent for this experiment not counting the cooler bought and the time spent. Overall, whether or not this experiment is a success or failure is not that important. The emphasis here is to 'experiment' to see if it will work to have some white comb. And removing the extra cocoons by the bees is almost like cleaning up the comb already. Interesting to see that after 2 days the brownish peroxide water turn to clear again. So peroxide is a fairly strong oxidizing agent at 3%. What if I can buy the stronger solution say at 5-10%? Will that work better to whiten up the comb in a shorter amount of time? Only if I can have access to some to try.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  16. #75
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    If you put a mat on the entrance to the hive, the bees will wipe their feet and not get the hive so dirty.

  17. #76
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by dsegrest View Post
    If you put a mat on the entrance to the hive, the bees will wipe their feet and not get the hive so dirty.
    That's really the root of the problem here. Dang bees!

  18. #77
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Ha, haa! But these are supposed to bee the hygienic bees.
    I'm sure they know how to clean up the hives. Who knows they might
    even know how to lick their feet like the cats do.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  19. #78
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    ... Then OA and bleach at 5% bath solution. Again, the purpose is to just whiten up the comb.
    Uh, maybe that's like a really bad idea?

    Chlorine bleach mixed with an acid = chlorine gas?

    I knew a guy who mixed ammonia and bleach to whiten up the floor, and they found him laid out on the floor. I'm not a chemist, but that taught me to be careful about mixing bleach with anything.

    Google says that mixing bleach with other acids (even vinegar) has a similar effect.

  20. #79
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    I understand that any chemical in full strength is extremely dangerous when
    mixed together esp. when not knowing how they will react. That is why before I mix things I would do it in very small amount first just
    to see how they will react when put together. i.e. put a 1/4 teaspoon into a mixing bowl of each
    chemical and stay far away from them just to observe the reaction. No acid burn or any funny smell to confirm in
    an open air environment. The same with the OAV burning before putting them on the bees to kill off the mites.
    The response on H2O2 by a future chemist here is the one I use for this experiment. So the first H2O2 solution
    had 60% water in it. Water is neutral to dilute things. Still enough for the reaction to get cold and loosen up the cocoons.
    Thanks for the cautionary response. Imagine a small cup of bleach 1 oz. with 1/4 tesp of OA in a mixing bowl in an open air environment.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  21. #80
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    Default Re: Whiten up the comb--how to?

    Two chemists walk into a bar. The first says, "I'll have some H20." The second ones says, "I'll have some H20, too."

    The second one dies.
    Painted Peacock Manor, Palos Verdes, CA

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