Will Politics Drive the Science? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Contempt ? That word came from you, not from me.
    Hmm. So "I instinctively dislike her behaviour" should not be read as "contempt?" That is news to me, but I suffer from a public school education. Please forgive my tenuous grasp of the language.


    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Also - I specifically have not criticised her (as a person).
    Sure you did ("I instinctively dislike her behaviour"). But that is fair game. She has entered the public sphere. If she wants to be taken seriously, she can be fairly criticized.


    "Finally, they must be wholly ignorant of the difficulties involved in their vast undertaking. Experience is a handicap. The men who started the French Revolution were wholly without political experience. The same is true of the Bolsheviks, Nazis and the revolutionaries in Asia."

    . . . and those that fought for women's suffrage, the abolition of slavery, and civil rights in the United States. Activists have come in all forms. Crazies. Zealots. Idiots. Fascists. Conservatives. Liberals. And -- without question -- many of noble character.

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  3. #42
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    LJ; how about Ghandi? That seems to have played out quite well. Now most all the oil countries spring uprisings were for naught. They wanted more of the pie but in most cases the pie was running out. Replacing one villain with another is treating symptom not addressing problem. I see the problem in almost all the high resource demand countries is that the population does not want to make the sacrifice necessary to get on any kind of a sustainable energy consumption path. Human tendency to highly discount the future.

    How real the climate change predictions are, really is irrelevant. The depletion of the finite fossil energy windfall is something we will have to deal with somehow. We are stuck in the belief that profit and growth is necessary to sustain us into the future. What??

    Greta is powerful symbol; the apparent contrast between her physical image and her strength of conviction is very compelling. I dont think the people are ready yet for the sacrifice necessary to make it happen. I think she is genuine but I wonder how many of her followers are merely Slacktivists.

    Do a google on that term and it will tickle your fancy; it will no doubt remind you of people you know who would enjoy the virtue signalling but not the sacrifice part of a genuine activist.

    I dont know what it would take to get people to actually get together on a course of action with a decent chance of avoiding the pitfalls ahead. Observing our politicians certainly does not give much faith in solutions coming from that direction!

    Greta's ideas might not be do able yet but if she brings some hard light to bear on the powers that be, and makes them a bit uncomfortable, good for her!
    Frank

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    ... Experience is a handicap ...
    This has been a problem.
    Excessive "experience" turns into a static, closed mind too often.

    In his classic work, Vladimir Lenin described that the "revolutionary situation" can happen when two conditions are met:
    1) the "tops" are unwilling to change the situation.
    2) the "bottoms" are no longer able to NOT change the situation

    Boom!

    Lenin, being a visionary of his time, was able to see the situation developing and took advantage of that.
    Most never saw it, or understood it, or cared about it, or wanted it - but everyone was eventually affected.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Too true GregV mostly done by the minority through the barrel of a gun.

  6. #45
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    Santa Fe, NM, U.S.
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    " Visionary " .... Genocidest... such interchangeable words.

  7. #46
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    Jun 2013
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    Greenville, NC, USA
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Pesticides are not only killing the pollinators; we are also killing ourselves just slower. The problem is farmers must have pesticides in order to get a crop. We need pesticides that don't kill pollinators... maybe pixie dust? It's CATCH 22 . Without chemicals farming can't survive and keep food as cheap as it is but in another 50 years our soil may be so contaminated that it will have to be treated.

  8. #47
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Petro Chemical food production and distribution. We are pretty much totally dependent on it. The dependence is growing more and more complete at the same time the enabling source is being depleted. The system is needing ever more workarounds to deal with the unintended consequences.

    Project this ahead fifty years and let your imagination run wild! What kind of whack "upside the head" would it take for a redirect?

    I am not blaming the farmers; they are probably being swept down the slippery slope with little chance of getting off.
    Frank

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoor N8 View Post
    " Visionary " .... Genocidest... such interchangeable words.
    These concepts are rather not synonymous.

    Visionary - the one who "sees" the things through.
    Not bad, not good by definition.
    Just visionary, for bad or for good.

    Then the other qualities tack on.
    One may end up Christ, the other may end up Stalin.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Will Politics Drive the Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    ....
    I am not blaming the farmers; they are probably being swept down the slippery slope with little chance of getting off.
    Most farmers are rather pawns manipulated by the Big Ag industry (and co-industries).
    The farmers are stuck if they are to survive.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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