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Extractor-less honey by Flow Hive

825K views 2K replies 255 participants last post by  clong 
#1 ·
#29 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

I'm curious how it would work with bur comb, propolis and what not. I think that you could get it to work initially, but like Harley said, once you extracted you would probably kick off a robbing frenzy. It seems like you would have to plumb this thing to work it as well. With it all plumbed it would be difficult to tell when they capped the comb. I would like to see the finished product, but I'm thinking the demo will work a lot better than an actual product.
 
#30 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

One of my Landowners where I have had an apiary for a number of years has a brother who invented combs that would drain from the base of each cell so one could do what it like what is seen in the video. I don't think he ever got a working model or prototype build.

What I find interesting is how clean the honey looks as it drains into the jars. And also that there are no bees around those jars or the jars being held up while the Father and Son are talking. Maybe there is a strong nectar flow on. I don't know. Just seems fishy. But if this works it will become well known soon enough.
 
#33 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

... a brother who invented combs that would drain from the base of each cell ... I don't think he ever got a working model or prototype build.
In the new patent application, they do mention that approach as one that was suggested earlier -- and theirs is presented as a big improvement. It's in the verbiage, which is sort of interesting if you think about what they're trying to do -- make money out of hyping effortless extraction, and at the same time corner the market on a general idea that might, at some point, be feasible.
 
#31 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

it appears to have a window to see when it's capped......but that doesn't mean the inside frames will be..... which leads to another problem....honey with too high of a water content that needs post harvest drying ................which is starting to sound like more work than harvesting the traditional way, in other words its a solution looking for a problem.
 
#32 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

I think it's a great idea. Good luck to them.

The market they are probably looking at is Bee havers with a hive at the bottom of the garden, the ones that are going to save the bees single handedly, pollinate their apple tree and harvest 1/2 a ton of honey a month, oh and all that treatment free. Think of the time and money saved if one doesn't have to crush and strain at harvest time.

Me, I think they are on to a winner.:applause:
 
#34 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

I'm naturally skeptical about something like this working or working well. Short cuts don't always save one much. But it will be interesting to see if it really works. It's all over Facebook Beekeeping Pages.
 
#35 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

I'm naturally skeptical about something like this working or working well. Short cuts don't always save one much. But it will be interesting to see if it really works. It's all over Facebook Beekeeping Pages.
No kidding, look at the page's history. It's only existed for a month, and all but a tiny portion of its "likes" come from the last 24h.
 
#39 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

>I read the patent I looks like they plan to imbed a heating element to help liquify the honey to get it to flow down through the channels

They thought that might be an issue. It was not. It does not have any heat and it flows just fine. Bee hives tend to be 93F or more all summer.

>When with a lot of money kick-started to them, they can explore the rest of the problem of how to extract honey by waving a wand over a closed box.

This is all working. You have to modify the box a bit so you can remove a panel to "throw the switch" and hook up the tubes, but it's not that hard. They seem to be the type to continue to try to improve things, but it works quite well right now.
 
#40 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

>Can you share any thoughts Michael, other than, "It works" ? G

Well, I have to make sure they have already publicly revealed anything I talk about since I signed a non-disclosure agreement. Anything they haven't made public I have to be careful about what I say...
 
#41 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

>Can you share any thoughts Michael, other than, "It works" ? G

Well, I have to make sure they have already publicly revealed anything I talk about since I signed a non-disclosure agreement. Anything they haven't made public I have to be careful about what I say...
Understood. I thought that may be the case. Interesting to hear that it works, I guess we will now just have to wait and see how user friendly so forth and so on. Thanks. G
 
#46 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

>Thanks, It's one to follow for sure. Like I said in my original post it seems ingenious but looks like all the kinks weren't worked out.

Well, as I see it, the kinks are worked out, although they keep trying to improve things.

I thought it was impossible when I first saw it. I actually wondered if it was a spoof or if it was real. But after seeing how it works and watching them do one frame in the open live on skype while I could see the entire frame and talk to them and after they sent me a box worth of them to test, I can assure you it works. My test of it so far is too small and over too short of a time to be sure what I think of it in practice, but I can't imagine that I'm going to find too many disadvantages. My issue now is, I'm not sure how I will manage my hives using them as it changes several things I have always done. First, I run all eight frame mediums and these are deeps, so I'll have to buy some deeps (which I already did). Second, it makes a hive much more static in size when you can empty the combs without even opening the hive really. No need to stack the supers up so high when you can just drain them periodically without having to clean up the extractor and all the equipment and the kitchen every time. Just draining it into a bucket eliminates all of that mess. The queen won't lay in them because they are too deep so you don't need an excluder (which I don't use, but some people do). You don't have to run the bees out to harvest so you eliminate all of that part of harvesting as well. In recent years I've had all the same size boxes and I try to leave them honey for winter. This may change my view of some of how I determine what to leave them since these are deeper combs and can't be used for brood I don't think I want them to cluster in them over winter. So I'll have to work out the details of how I will use them as far as when to put them on, take them off, drain them, how many mediums to have on below them etc. In other words, I'm pretty sure I'll be using them, it will just be too useful not to, but exactly how that impacts my total system I'm not really sure, until I've tried to work those details out.

When I first saw it I thought of this story from "Mastering the Art of Beekeeping" by Ormond and Harry Aebi:

" 'I want to buy one of your beehives' he said. 'I want you to bring it to me tomorrow at eleven in the morning and I want you to set it up on top of a ten foot pole that I'll have set up by that time. And I want you to come over every Thursday afternoon and drain out the honey so that I can have fresh honey every week.'... 'I can't place a beehive up on a pole like that,' I said. 'And even if I could, I couldn't work it to take off the honey.' 'Why not? I shall expect you to install a spigot at the bottom of the hive. All you'll have to do is open it and drain off the quantity of honey I require.' 'Beehives don't work that way,' I told him. 'I can't possibly do as you ask.'..."

And now beehives can work that way...
 
#48 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

VERY interesting. I would have to see the inner workings myself before I got one, but if it works like you say it does Michael, then I may consider it just for the sake of having one. I guess the cost of the product was also included in the disclosure agreement?
 
#54 · (Edited)
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

The Australian patent application can be seen here: http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/ols/auspat/applicationDetails.do?applicationNo=2012357650

If that link does not work you can do a search at ipaustralia.gov.au using the patent app number 2012357650

it is far more detailed than the Fresh Patents listing.

So far as I can tell the patent has not been granted by IP Australia. But they have not fallen behind with filing fees etc.

Having been involved (peripherally) with a few patents applications myself I would say they must feel that they are on to something because getting a patent granted in Australia is no get rich quick shortcut. That is you can't get an Australian patent easily.

My alma mater is the University of Newcastle. It is not some tinpot rube diploma mill. It is ranked in the top 3% in the world (Times HER). I am pretty sure that they do not allow academic staff to use their connection with the university in product endorsements without some internal investigation of the credentials of the product etc.

I am amazed at the reactions of some of the Beek groups on Facebook in particular (not so much here). I suspect that it's a bit of an outbreak of "Not Invented Here" syndrome judging by the spite and malice displayed.

Let's wait and see.
 
#56 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

Definitely workable. The concept itself is pretty simple but coming up with a design to be able to make both the cell movement hands free and the honey transport work well would the the catches.

The way the patent is written would allow them to do everything from manufacture a turnkey setup to selling the rights to OEM and avoid some of the hassle with trying to warranty such a setup directly. They've also covered most of the alternate possible configurations and material types so nobody can just produce a knock off by changing one or two simple aspects to sidestep their patent... I suppose that is the whole point though.

The internet is even mentioned... maybe Apple can pick up on it and produce the iHoney or iBee

Jeff.
 
#59 ·
Re: Extractor-less honey by- "Honey Flow"

This could no doubt be a game changer for smaller operators.

If it becomes a standard practice in honey production, I am sure the wax market will be effected!!! Might have trouble getting foundation for the deep brood frames.

Obviously it would really need to catch on well before wax supplies became an issue.
 
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