Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    I was planning on opening the cloak 24 hrs after the graft. Is there a preference between how long to leave the cells in the queenless state?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Heres an excel file that was going around a few years ago.

    Queen breeding.xls
    Dan

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I was planning on opening the cloak 24 hrs after the graft. Is there a preference between how long to leave the cells in the queenless state?
    Not exactly Ian. It is said that 24 hours after grafts are placed into a "queenless" hive, they will be started and can then be transferred into a queenright finisher. It is also implied that the queenright finisher has more nurse bees and resources and will be able to finish out the cells better than just a "Starter/Finisher" combined that is queenless.

    Palmer runs his queenless starter till the cells are capped then moves to the queenright finisher. But the starter also has all the foragers too in his setups.
    Thomas Bartram

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Both rearing time tables provided by G's and Dan's link say not to move or disturb the cells after capping right through til day 13. I guess moving the cells closer to the hatch the better.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Both rearing time tables provided by G's and Dan's link say not to move or disturb the cells after capping right through til day 13. I guess moving the cells closer to the hatch the better.
    I think most commercials place their cells in an incubator a couple days after being capped. I just wouldn't lay them on their sides. Last year I tryed to cut it close and had some cells hatching while being planted. You can watch for the house bees to be removing some of the material at the bottom outside of the cell just before they hatch.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    I plan to try out a cloak board and the ots method this yr and see how it goes for a few cells

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Ian, are you planning on using your cell starter for multiple batches? If you are where on your calendar do you reload the starter with capped brood?
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Ah yes, good point.

    this is small scale, looking to graft 56-60 cells at a time, to fill 40 mating nucs every two weeks. This work is not too intensive.

    What I had planned (and this is where feedback is welcomed) before every graft, I'd move the capped brood up to make space for the queen below. That would be on a two week rotation. I'd also shake a good number of frames uptop to increase the number of bees, feed them sugar, and close them off from the bottom box. Later that evening I will drop my two frames of grafted cells into the top queenless box (guess it's called a swarm box?) 36 hours later I plan on removing the divide and to allow the hive to merge and carry forward as a queen right starter finisher.

    But I'm going to have to check for stray cells on those brood frames.... Probably a good time for that when I remove the cells on day 14, or anytime before the cells are capped I would guess.

    This strict instruction I keep reading; " do not disturb cells or colony after cells are capped til day 13" , how important is that? I have seen vids of producers handling cells around that critical time roughly "to my eyes" to be put in incubation.
    Last edited by Ian; 01-30-2015 at 09:45 AM. Reason: correcting

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    do you spin your bottom entrance around when it's closed up so returning forragers return to the top? I have read where that helps, but saw a video where a guy just laid a board up against the hive above the bottom entrance and they returned to the top no problem.

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    This strict instruction I keep reading; " do not disturb cells or colony after cells are capped til day 13" , how important is that? I have seen vids of producers handling cells around that critical time roughly "to my eyes" to be put in incubation.
    "Handling" is kind of a relative term. The first 3 days after they have been capped is when they are the softest and most easily damaged. Any handling of cells should be done with a very light touch. Any cells still in builders on day 10 after grafting are always pulled and incubated for safety's sake to be put in the next day. I handle them carefully but I really think they are pretty tough at that point as we usually lay them horizontally in a warm dish during installation nd haven't noticed any ill effects from doing so. The next day (11 days after grafting) we figure they are pretty tough and only take care to see they aren't chilled or over heated.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Typically speaking; are the days counted "day # ___" from the day the egg was laid or from the day the beekeeper grafts the larvae?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Well, here is a look at my Spring Queen Rearing Calender, Visuals help me organize my thoughts into actual plans;



    Its a bit intimidating posting this after a 10,000 cell producers post...lol But what the heck, I use this forum to glean knowledge anyway I can. Silly questions are the ones not asked! Right ?

    It shows 5 grafts in May through into June, the fifth graft leading into July. That will equate about 100 mated queens by the end of June, plus however long I extend the project out for. My intention is to set up a program to expand onto in future years.

    What ya think?
    Last edited by Ian; 01-30-2015 at 09:44 AM. Reason: correcting
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Typically speaking; are the days counted "day # ___" from the day the egg was laid or from the day the beekeeper grafts the larvae?
    Folks may have different ideas on this but our "lingo" is to date everything strictly from the graft date. It really dosen't matter as long as YOU understand it. For our purposes, if you grafted on the 1st they must be pulled on the evening of the 11th (if not sooner) for incubation and installed by the evening of the 12th. Leave them in the night of the 10th at your own risk, you won't often have one hatch, but when it happens its a bit of a mess. They will start hatching by mid day on the 11th depending on exact grafting age and incubation temps.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    I like to move my cells on day 10 - 11 if you wait until day 12 all bets are off. I'm still learning so I'm sure I get a few larva that maybe a little older than the rest and I have some that will hatch a little early on day 12. So if I move them no later than day 11 everything is fine. I always plan on moving them on day 10 and have a high 90% hatch rate so they must be pretty tuff. It seems that if the cell makes it all the way to day 10 without the bees tearing the cell down you can almost always be assured you will get a virgin queen to hatch out.

    When I talk about day 10 I'm talking about 10days after grafting. Good luck with your queen rearing Ian. It has been one of my favorite parts of bee keeping but, it has also been the most frustrating.

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Ian, if I am reading your calendar correctly, you are only allowing 11 days after hatching for your queens to get mated and start laying. That is about the very soonest you will see any eggs. I would give them at least 2 weeks so that you can really get a good look at her pattern plus it will help maintain bee populations in your baby nucs.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Hmm, yes I do want to make sure the queens have time and I also want them to brood the Nuc before pulled.
    So using two weeks as the suggested wait time in the mating Nuc, that means it puts my "perfect" timing out by two or three days... Hmmm

    Not a big deal, I'd just stager the next round graft back two or three days but it throws my bi weekly Sunday afternoon out the window... Lol

    I could run things right down to the wire, but I'd like to leave a day or so lee way to help manage weather and work load.

    How do breeders run their work calendar?

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Hmm,that means it puts my "perfect" timing out by two or three days... Hmmm



    How do breeders run their work calendar?
    Yea, stupid bees, don't know there is 7 days in a week.

    You can use the Mike Palmer 8 step program, it gives you 16 days in the mating nuc, but it will mess up your Sundays.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Ian, There are a number of folks on here who could advise you better than me on this. I only did baby nucs for 3 years. We caged at 2 weeks and it seems like we still were always in need of booster bees to keep them strong enough.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Unless I incubate on day 10 after the graft and cage the virgins.
    Then introduce the virgins on day 13 after catching the mated queens.

    When Beekeepers hatch cells and cage the virgins, how long can they be held in the cage before viability decreases? Do the newly hatched queens need to be fed immediately as I believe worker bees are?

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Simple Queen rearing Calander from Glenn Apiaries

    Yes, the virgin queens need to be fed immediately. They will eat other workers too if not immediately feed inside the cage. They are aggressive and hungry after hatching, alright. Some said the virgin will go inside the cell trying to find nourishment and never bee able to back out again so she died inside the cell. Though I have never seen one before.
    I like the idea of using the standard so to save time and not having the minis for the extra equipments to restock and handle. This will allow the queen to be evaluated and be put into a production hive later on or use as a nuc queen. Having a free roaming virgin will allow her hormones to develop that is why after 3 days it is harder to introduce a virgin into a nuc vs a newly hatched one without the strong queen scent yet. It seems to be true with my experience so far. I think Lauri said 2 days is the max for a viable virgin caged inside an incubator. Maybe we should get her here for all to learn.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

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