squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience - Page 97
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  1. #1921
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    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    I could be dealing with different issues this season. I still have not ruled out suffocation causes on 5 hives. 4 dead and one queenless but raising brood from a healthy hive with no symptoms of efb showing up. I would like to repopulate that comb but will test that water very cautiously.

    Question; will the test kits detect EFB on material such as pollen or honey or does it have to be from diseased larvae? There was not one speck of brood open or capped from the hives that perished this past winter.
    Frank

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  3. #1922
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    not sure about that frank but i'm guessing it has to be larvae.

    i'm waiting for a response from the bee lab in beltsville to see if they can grow mellisococcus plutonium from comb/pollen/honey samples.

    the folks in the u.k. have apparently been able to to that according to the video presentation on efb typing linked in the efb options thread:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0B9...ature=youtu.be
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #1923
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Lee
    Sorry to hear about your lost hives to EFB. Hope things get better for you. I am in my eighth season treatment free. I run only VSH. I was wondering how close those other beekeepers you mentioned were to you. I fear I may be losing some of my isolation as well. Got one guy 2 and 1/2 miles away as the bee flies. Should I be worried? Also have you considered add some VSH to your yards? They are also known for resistance to disease as well as mites. Just trying to help. Take care and good luck.
    2.5 miles is borderline. in my case the new beekeepers are 1 - 2 miles away.

    start watching closely, look very carefully at the open brood especially if the capped brood gets spotty.

    consider having a test kit or two on hand, i ordered mine from mann lake. be thinking about what you might do if you end up with efb.

    many thanks for your kind words j!
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #1924
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    i had another nice conversation with the principle at alabama a&m university's radiation lab this evening. (many thanks again russ for the lead)

    thankfully he is as eager or more than i am about coming up with the means to sterilize bee hive equipment and comb using radiation.

    he has researched the problem and is leaning toward building an x-ray device as opposed to using radioactive material, citing advantages in cost, safety, licensing, ect.

    fingers crossed.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #1925
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    No experience with irradiation it is not available for beekeepers here. But i do recall a post by someone, possibly Roland, who regularly got gear irradiated. Whoever it was, said it was quite noticeable when the irradiated gear was re stocked with bees, how well they did compared with the rest of the bees on normal used gear. Just the absense of all those bugs that accumulate.
    "Thinking Inside The Box"

  7. #1926
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    870

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    he has researched the problem and is leaning toward building an x-ray device as opposed to using radioactive material, citing advantages in cost, safety, licensing, ect.
    Maybe this opens a door for research in ways to effectively decontaminate comb in a non-destructive manner? Thank you for keeping us posted on your progress.

  8. #1927
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    Jul 2017
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    NW Florida
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    1,118

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    I wonder what their definition of cost effective is. It would be great to have something we can diy for our own hives. I hope you two are successful!
    Beek since 2016: Hardiness Zone 9a: in NW Florida

  9. #1928
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    we'll see. certain frames will avoid irradiation, as they qualify for thermal treatment:

    efb.jpg
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #1929
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    What typically happens with an EFB infestation?

    For example, if a commercial beekeeper had a large outbreak, are they able to cure and eradicate it using drugs, or what?
    "Thinking Inside The Box"

  11. #1930
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    Jun 2018
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    we'll see. certain frames will avoid irradiation, as they qualify for thermal treatment:

    efb.jpg
    It hurts to look...

  12. #1931
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    what some did (and some still may do if they stockpiled) prior to the ban on prophylactic antibiotics was to dose every colony in every yard with terramycin in the spring prior to placing honey supers, and then dose them with tylosin in the fall after removing honey supers.

    i was a little bit shocked (but not really) hearing our state apiarist blow off the seriousness of efb when i reported my rapid and widespread collapses. most of the internet searches for efb tend to describe a less deadly entity that isn't anything like what i am seeing.

    i think it gets down to which one of the several dozen genotypes of efb it is. that, and mellisococcus plutonius is adapting and evolving as well. we may come to learn that removing the prophylactic treatments is enalbing the bug to exert more of a whammy that the bees haven't had to cope with before.

    that, and with the movement of bees from pollination contracts in southern california to package bee farms in georgia to beginners' back yards all over creation may be providing an opportunity for nasty strains of efb to pop up here and there, especially considering among beginners having colonies collapse (and get robbed out) happens not infrequently.

    a good friend in the next state over found two hives sitting side by side with efb last week. he also has seen an influx of beginners starting with and then losing imported bees in recent years.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  13. #1932
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    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    A local group of beekeepers is meeting with one of the owners of the local veterinary clinic to fill us in on how they will respond to the new regulations regarding prescribing for honeybees. The clinic has sent people away on course to get up to speed on bee related issues. I am interested in knowing whether they will insist on their hands on inspection of colonies, or will prescribe antibiotics on the basis of the beekeepers pictures, descriptions, and perhaps the test kit results.

    For AFB I dont think anything but fire will be prescribed. For EFB I dont know what really is envisioned by the powers that be. Hopefully I will know more after the meeting next Friday.
    Frank

  14. #1933
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadeguppy View Post
    It would be great to have something we can diy for our own hives.
    many thanks jg. here's an article about using ozone to diy:

    https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2014/mar/honeycombs
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #1934
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Litsinger View Post
    It hurts to look...
    yep. my homeyard and outyard are ghosts of what they were and could have been...

    the overflow yard, (only three hives) is kicking butt. one of those is filling 8 supers and another is filling 7 supers. the third was an artifical swarm split that is doing a pretty darn good job on filling 4 supers.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  16. #1935
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
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    2,967

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    SP, how many colonies do you have at this time?

    Also, are you going to have to purchase a large amount of new equipment? I suspect you will need a few hundred new frames.

    Albert Zook has very competitive prices and sells pre-assembled hardware including frames with foundation.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  17. #1936
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    i was a little bit shocked (but not really) hearing our state apiarist blow off the seriousness of efb when i reported my rapid and widespread collapses. most of the internet searches for efb tend to describe a less deadly entity that isn't anything like what i am seeing.

    i think it gets down to which one of the several dozen genotypes of efb it is. that, and mellisococcus plutonius is adapting and evolving as well.
    In following some of the gossip from some of the USA commercial beekeepers i have been hearing exactly that, for several years now. Some of them are saying they believe EFB has got a lot more deadly than it used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    For AFB I dont think anything but fire will be prescribed. For EFB I dont know what really is envisioned by the powers that be.
    Fire is a good tool for AFB, because despite being deadly as it is, AFB is not actually that contagious. IE, it is common to find AFB in somebody's apiary, and despite that they have used the same hive tool to work that hive as others, once the infected hive is destroyed, the others do not develop the disease. (Well sometimes, anyway). Whereas the reading i have done describes EFB as very contagious.

    So using fire to eradicate an AFB infection can mostly be done at not too much cost, ie, long as the beekeeper has not been too tardy detecting it, most outbreaks could be contained by just burning a small % of hives. Whereas with the contagious nature of EFB, whole apiaries could be infected, and burning would be a very expensive option.
    "Thinking Inside The Box"

  18. #1937
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Whereas with the contagious nature of EFB, whole apiaries could be infected, and burning would be a very expensive option.
    it's pretty clear to me that this disease spreads quickly and easily by the simple drifting of bees from one hive to it's neighbor. it also appears pretty certain that the bacteria can survive in dead out equipment for some time and lead to infection if that dead out equipment is used.

    the economic loss for this year is already approaching 10k and climbing in lost honey and nuc sales. i may end up having to destroy almost 10 years of accumulated drawn comb and there's no way to put a dollar value on that.

    this hit just as the colonies were hitting full stride on their spring build up. it was eye opening to see how quickly colonies that were 2 - 3 ten frame deep langs worth of bees dwindled down to less than 1 deep worth of bees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion_power View Post
    SP, how many colonies do you have at this time?
    i have 7 colonies getting heavy with honey and appearing strong based on entrance activity and hive roar. these have anywhere from 4 to 8 supers above a single deep and have not been inspected since the onset of the yard collapses.

    i have 5 colonies that have dwindled down to nuc size or less that have received their first rounds of terramycin, and 2 other colonies to be inspected today that from outward appearance will probably be in the same boat.

    i haven't decided if or to what degree i will rebuild. some of that will have to do with whether or not i can sterilize my equipment.

    efb sucks big time.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #1938

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    it's pretty clear to me that this disease spreads quickly and easily by the simple drifting of bees
    The disease Im having must be a different one ( or different strain?). What Im having does not spread. I can easily keep an infected colony in the yard for weeks if not months and no other colony is infected.

  20. #1939
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    Boaz, KY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    yep. my homeyard and outyard are ghosts of what they were and could have been...
    Again, my sincerest condolences SP. I really hope that the final disposition in terms of salvaged colonies and woodenware is better than anticipated.

    So prior to the outbreak you had +/- 21 production colonies? If my math is right based your recent reply you have 14 colonies which are showing signs of pulling through?

    Just trying to wrap my mind around what your percentage demise is looking like.

    Also, if I recall correctly you have a few hives that you haven't treated for EFB? Is this as a result of a negative test result, outward observation or both?

    Thank you again for being willing to share this sobering commentary.

  21. #1940
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    The disease Im having must be a different one ( or different strain?). What Im having does not spread. I can easily keep an infected colony in the yard for weeks if not months and no other colony is infected.
    juhani, are you obtaining laboratory or field test confirmation that these colonies are positive for efb? (vita field test kit used here)

    do you have the opportunity to have your samples dna sequence typed so that the 'strain' might be indentified? (we can not get that here to the best of my knowledge)
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

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