squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience - Page 103
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  1. #2041
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    10,170

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    ya'll are awesome.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

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  3. #2042

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
    I've been off the forum for a while but i always enjoyed this thread.

    Sorry to hear about this turn of events for you. If anyone deserves to be successful it's you, sp.
    You work hard with your bees, keep careful records and you.have always been impeccable in your courtesy and grace dealing with posters here.

    Take care, brother and best of luck to you. I hope the bees turn it around next year.
    +1
    I have always appreciated your calm and thoughtfull writings, which tell me of a person with great wisdom. As someone already said, Im sure you will have survivors. As long as there is one left, there is hope. Been there, done that...

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    no more antibiotics for me as my success rate was poor with it and there remains the issue of the bacteria lingering in the honey and beebread, as well as the problem of having a contagious colony around.
    That is a good decission. Personally I would not be burning boxes, or frames.

  4. #2043
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    4,034

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Juhani
    Personally I would not be burning boxes, or frames.
    I have to admit that I would only burn for afb and would probably try to bull through everything else but have not lost half of my hives yet. I believe that will come someday and I will put it to the test though.

    I also say that since I am not facing it, the above is what I believe now but might be different when facing the pain. I don't think so but am not sure.

    I do like your saying, paraphrased by me: "I'm just a hard headed bee keeper that decided to quit treating".
    Cheers
    gww
    zone 5b

  5. #2044
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    612

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post

    if the efb continues to show up i'll just keep burning and likely decrease my footprint to just a few colonies for personal use and enjoyment. i am too risk averse to invest again the time and money to be a sideliner when all it takes is a stray bacteria to clean me out.
    Hi squarepeg re: "when all it takes is a stray bacteria to clean me out" Or a Bear (wiped out by bear 2 times) or a really nasty winter (2 weeks of -15 or colder, bees could not reach the feed) Or Mites. I have burned it all 1 time. I understand the feeling,,, just resist it, with bees sometime you get dealt a bad hand. For me I have been to zero hives come spring 4 or 5 times. Trust me once you know "how to make increase" the recovery is faster each time. A burn down is also a great time to consider different equipment/ways. If you like the keeping Just roll with it. I now have bees in 4 places, At times 1 place can be down to Zero but catch a swarm , pull a couple splits from another Apairy and you are back in the Saddle. If you are the type that a stray Bacteria can sideline, I guess I may have misjudged you. This is a learning opportunity, and equipment change opportunity. If I get wiped out 2 or 3 more times , I will still have bees. It is in the blood for me. I'll be rooting for your speedy recovery.

    GG

  6. #2045
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Spencer, MA, USA
    Posts
    2,862

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    many thanks russ, i really do appreciate the sentiment.

    no way to be sure in the one that was broodless, as you point out nothing to sample. i lean toward queen failure because i would expect to find at least a little spotty capped brood if it was efb.

    yes to the burning the frames, especially those containing dead brood and bee bread.

    i will attempt to disinfect empty super comb with bleach as previously described, not knowing for sure if this is going to work or not, it's just that there is so much of it.

    if efb shows up next year in a hive that has been given any of this disinfected comb everything gets destroyed and not given a second chance. no more antibiotics for me as my success rate was poor with it and there remains the issue of the bacteria lingering in the honey and beebread, as well as the problem of having a contagious colony around.

    we'll see if i have anything to rebuild with come next spring. luckily i have access to splits from multi-winter treatment free stock from about 4 other beekeepers if i need it, plus i have the opportunity to place swarm traps in relatively isolated spots where only feral wild types live.

    if the efb continues to show up i'll just keep burning and likely decrease my footprint to just a few colonies for personal use and enjoyment. i am too risk averse to invest again the time and money to be a sideliner when all it takes is a stray bacteria to clean me out.
    Hi Square,

    As you know I am not treatment free. However, 2 winters ago I lost every hive - still not sure what the problem was. That was after a previous disastrous winter. My solution was to burn everything and start with fresh equipment. Last winter I had 100% survival. So, whatever was killing them is hopefully gone. Anyway, I think burn everything from infected hives is the solution. JMO

  7. #2046
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    10,170

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    juhani, gg, and cam - many thanks for the replies.

    the strain of efb that ended up in my apiaries is extremely contagious and highly virulent. it spread very quickly and collapsed what were strong colonies in just a brood cycle or two. shook swarming and/or oxytet didn't do much to faze it.

    that the bacteria can persist for long periods of time on the frames even after the colony is gone presents a risk not worth taking. i don't have access to irradiation so destruction by burning is the only thing that really makes sense.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #2047
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    it's looking like my bees may get included in a new study being put together by researchers in switzerland who are taking a careful look at proven mite resistant populations.
    as it turns out the swiss researchers are coordinating this with an entomology professor at auburn university. this professor and his team are personally responsible for collecting the samples. for this reason there will only be samples taken from a handful of apiaries here in alabama.

    i wasn't aware of this when i first learned about the request for samples and posted about it here. my apologies for the confusion to those of you who sent pm's expressing a willingness to provide samples.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  9. #2048
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    2,087

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    I burned my frames as a precaution, melted comb from plasticell (plastic is quite toxic to burn) and gave the wax to someone making furniture polish just to be sure. Sorry for your losses
    Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, flood and strange weather. The bees are still alive.

  10. #2049
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Vestavia Hills, Al. USA
    Posts
    419

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    What temperature kills it?
    Have you thought about hot wax dipping your equipment or a Kiln that can be turned down
    I read here somewhere that hot wax dipping was hot enough (250-350 F) to kill AFB so it may also kill EFB.
    Started April Fools Day 2017

  11. #2050
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,809

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by R_V View Post
    What temperature kills it?
    Have you thought about hot wax dipping your equipment or a Kiln that can be turned down
    I read here somewhere that hot wax dipping was hot enough (250-350 F) to kill AFB so it may also kill EFB.
    It would be wonderful if there were a dependable method (short of radiation) that would dependably kill 100% of the infective bacteria on comb. The hive bodies, top and bottom boards, excluders etc, can be reused after a thorough scraping and scorching with hand held propane torch. The big obstacle to recovery is lack of drawn comb.

    I used a lot of partial foundations and crosswired foundationless for quicker drawing and needing plenty of drones for mating splits. I have 5 complete double deep colonies stored for another year before I dare risk repopulating them.

    What say SquarePeg; would you risk reusing them? Ever?
    Frank

  12. #2051
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    What say SquarePeg; would you risk reusing them? Ever?
    to be determined frank.

    i've actually got a very strong caught swarm in a double deep right now with 17 of the 20 frames having come out of efb infected hives and then disinfected with bleach.

    i'll be moving that hive to another yard soon and once moved it will get a thorough inspection looking carefully for any sign of efb.

    most of the comb i have saved (and disinfected) is drawn on medium frames and for use in honey supers. i'll likely give those another spray of bleach before trying them out next spring and seeing what happens.
    journaling the growth of a (mite) treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  13. #2052
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,809

    Default Re: squarepeg 2015-2019 treatment free experience

    I think you should be good to go with those frames as honey supers. If the bacteria survive that degree of sanitation and still infect, it is a mean enemy indeed. I m

    I think I will stick with my down sized half a dozen colonies; I wouldn't be up to suffering the kind of loss you have been dealing with.

    Best!
    Frank

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