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squarepeg 2015-? treatment free experience

497K views 2K replies 127 participants last post by  squarepeg 
#1 ·
the recent arctic blast led to over 72 continuous hours of subfreezing temps at my location in northeast alabama. i realize that's not too drastic when compared to what many of you in the north see but for us that is well below normal for here and it was the first real overwintering challenge for my bees. i made the rounds with the stethoscope today and to my relief i still have decent cluster roar in 18/18 hives.

i had mentioned in other threads that i was considering chronicling my 2015 season here on the forum. the purpose for doing so is because there has been interest expressed for more detailed information regarding the real life successes and failures involved with keeping bees off treatments. so i begin this thread with that expressed intent, primarily for information sharing and educational purposes, with all humility and with no desire to toot my own horn or otherwise. the one selfish objective i have in doing this is the hope that some of you seasoned veterans will chime in with feedback and suggestions.

background: as stated in my tagline i started with bees in the summer of 2010. i started with stock obtained from a supplier who began breeding from feral cut outs in 1996 and has not used treatments the whole time. i still get some queen cells from him from time to time but mostly propagate my own queens via splits and grafts. i run all langstroth equipment, and most hives are a single 10 deep with medium supers. i use 5 frame deeps for nucs. foundation is mostly ritecell, although i have begun adding foundationless frames to the deeps. i generally avoid artificial feeds, but have made exceptions when indicated. the operation is a sideline business (llc) intended to produce supplemental income through honey and nuc sales.

2015 goals: i seek to maximize the profitability of the operation to the extent possible while maintaining the colonies off treatments and avoiding artificial feeds. my specific goals this year involve having every colony 'earning its keep' by providing harvestable honey and/or nucs. i would like to average one nuc sale and 100 lbs of honey sold for every hive that survives winter, and then end up with around 20 established colonies and a handful of nucs going into next winter.

so much for the introductory post. i'll take this opportunity to offer my many thanks to the fine contributors on the forum who have been a huge part of the learning process for me. here's wishing everyone a successful 2015 of beekeeping! :)
 
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#4 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

As I've said before sp...you're a good man. I like your threads and respect your honesty. It has been cold here too....by our standards....so far, so good.
 
#8 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

no desire to toot my own horn or otherwise.
Arrgh a new Sol! :eek:

Ha Ha just kidding Squarepeg it will be a wonderful thread, I for one will very much enjoy it. It may well become a kind of TF flagship, and reference point. Above all, I hope it may shed some light for the likes of me, those who have followed the formulae prescribed so far, but failed anyway. Maybe new ideas and understandings will surface along the way.

I remember StephenG's thread from way back which was the best thing going at the time, unfortunately it has not been maintained, perhaps this thread will fill the gap.
 
#10 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

I am glad to hear that all 18 of your hives are still peculating, I will be following your thread with interest, all my best to you squarepeg........:)
 
#11 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

many thanks to all for the kind replies, and for easing my conscience about having this thread.

beewitched, yes i use a single deep with medium supers on almost all hives. i have two deeps when using a cloake board for queen rearing, and sometimes two deeps temporarily when combining.

ot, lol! may i enlist you as my accountability partner on that one? :)

the next post will be my inventory of colonies at this time, along with their hive weights taken on jan. 4, changes in weights since october 31, estimated current lbs. of honey in hive, year of origin, and mite counts for three of them.

you will notice that 2/3 of them were just started this year. this is partly by design and partly by mistake. i have two yards and up until now one was used for honey and the other was used for nucs. i made the mistake of splitting all of my 2013 overwintered colonies into nucs that i sold this past year, wishing later i would have kept some of the overwintered queens for myself. i also split and requeened three colonies this year that i have had for several seasons because even though they were surviving they were just not producing. so we'll have to take into account for this winter that first year untreated colonies often do well until the second winter.

this year both yards and all hives will be managed for honey and nucs on a hive by hive basis.
 
#23 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

ot, lol! may i enlist you as my accountability partner on that one? :)
I've been reading you long enough to know that nothing like that will be required.

A thread by someone who enjoys real success, but always speaks inclusively, courteously and does not respond to insults in kind, will be a great thing. Wish I had your self discipline in my tendency to shoot off my mouth sometimes.
 
#12 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

LEGEND:

HIVE: WEIGHT ON JAN. 4, CHANGE FROM OCT. 31 TO NOV. 30, CHANGE FROM NOV. 30 TO JAN. 4, (ESTIMATED LBS. HONEY IN HIVE), YEAR, MITE COUNT AND DATE TAKEN

#2: 95 +1, -2 (50) 2011 NUC 8.93% MITE COUNT 9/26/14
#3: 87 +5.5, -4 (52) 2014 SWARM
#4: 71 +.5, -4 (26) 2012 NUC
#5: 99.5 -4, -2.5 (54) 2014 SWARM
#7: 105 SAME, -1 (60) 2013 NUC 10.7% MITE COUNT 10/19/14
#8: 88.5 +3, +.5 (43) 2014 NUC
#9: 98.5 -3.5, +.5 (53) 2012 NUC 13.4% MITE COUNT 10/19/14
#10: 74 -1, -1 (29) 2014 NUC
#11: 84.5 -5.5, -4 (39) 2014 NUC
B1: 57 -1, +1 (22) 2014 NUC
B2: 56 -1.5, -.5 (21) 2014 NUC
B3: 57 +6 (HONEY ADDED), SAME (22) 2014 NUC
B4: 58 -5, +2 (23) 2014 NUC
B5: 62 -1.5, +.5 (27) 2014 NUC
B6: 56 +6 (HONEY ADDED), SAME (21) 2014 NUC
B7: 82 -1, +.5 (37) 2014 NUC
B8: 60 +1.5, +1 (25) 2014 SWARM
B9: 77 +3.5, -1 (32) 2011 NUC


i hope this makes sense.
 
#15 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

To me it is clear, thank you. You have 2 hives that do not swarm since 2011 (#2 and B9). In your case, and being productive colonies and resistant to mites , I would make them the center of my breeding queens program. What process do you use to assess the weight of the hives?
 
#16 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

thank you eduardo. the older hives may have swarmed, but have been surviving without needing requeening by me since those years. yes, the ones that have survived the longest, swarmed the least, and produce the most honey are the ones i take my grafts from. i use a scale that is made for weighing fish to weigh first one side and then the other side of the hive, and then add the two.

http://www.beesource.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3463&d=1352499946
 
#20 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

I see. The place where you have your hives is very beautiful. You use medium beneath the deep. It is for storage of pollen?
that's the idea, although i did not get that one put on in time for pollen storage. i also feel it is better to store it there for the winter instead of in my garage. in another month or so, the bottom super will be brought up and the empty comb in it will be checkerboarded with the honey super that is now on top.
 
#18 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

Great thread SP I also look forward to reading your accounts. I'm Do have one question regarding what is currently,or historically at this time of year, happening in your colonies. have they already begun rearing brood. Or do they even stop for any period of time so far south?

Thanks EC
 
#19 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

good question eric. the bees here close out their broodnest and go into overwintering mode by around the first frost which normally occurs around the end of october. if you look at the hive weights you'll see that there has been very little change in most of the hive weights from the end of october until now. since there has been no forage and very little stores have been used i interpret that as no brooding.

the exceptions are #5 and #11. these two are really strong colonies and continued to forage pollen even after the others stopped. i believe these two are leading the rest in their early brooding coming out of winter. that usually starts here around late january to early february and corresponds to the first tree pollens becoming available. fusionpower is near me and he is observing the first rounds of brood in some of his hives.
 
#21 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

I'll be looking forward to your thread. Always wondering what others are doing in our area. I'm really interested in your experiences as treatment free. I'm hoping to get to that point. Thank you!
 
#27 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

You've probably talked about this before, but how will 2015 differ from what you've been doing in the past? Are there any significant changes you're planning? How are your colonies arranged, all in one yard or distributed? Regardless, thanks for taking the effort to publicly record your effort!!
my approach is a work in progress and frankly i hope it always will be, but here are some ways 2015 will be different:

1. my bees are split almost equally between two yards, about 8 miles apart. rather than have a 'honey' yard and a 'nuc' yard like before, both yards and all hives will be utilized for honey and nucs in ways that make the most sense for each individual hive.

2. i am considering equalizing populations among the hives as we progress through the spring build up. my thought is to take frames of capped brood with adhering nurse bees from the largest and donate them to the smallest. this is to give each hive a chance to be productive, and may give me a shot at holding the strongest back from swarming.

3. swarm prevention is key to getting a decent honey harvest. i find that checkerboarding alone reduces my swarming by half, but i want better. i want to experiment with other methods and will likely utilize cut down splits on more of the hives than i have been. the sale of the cut downs will generate nuc income, and the nucs i keep can donate brood to the parent colonies during the month it takes for them to make a new queen.

as i said in the op, all feedback, comments, suggestions, ect. are welcomed

ps: i wish i could spend a season in suffolk looking over your shoulder ab, the progress you are making is noteworthy!
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: squarepeg 2015

i had mentioned in other threads that i was considering chronicling my 2015 season here on the forum. the purpose for doing so is because there has been interest expressed for more detailed information regarding the real life successes and failures involved with keeping bees off treatments. so i begin this thread with that expressed intent, primarily for information sharing and educational purposes, with all humility and with no desire to toot my own horn or otherwise. the one selfish objective i have in doing this is the hope that some of you seasoned veterans will chime in with feedback and suggestions.

background: as stated in my tagline i started with bees in the summer of 2010. i started with stock obtained from a supplier who began breeding from feral cut outs in 1996 and has not used treatments the whole time. i still get some queen cells from him from time to time but mostly propagate my own queens via splits and grafts. i run all langstroth equipment, and most hives are a single 10 deep with medium supers. i use 5 frame deeps for nucs. foundation is mostly ritecell, although i have begun adding foundationless frames to the deeps. i generally avoid artificial feeds, but have made exceptions when indicated. the operation is a sideline business (llc) intended to produce supplemental income through honey and nuc sales.

2015 goals: i seek to maximize the profitability of the operation to the extent possible while maintaining the colonies off treatments and avoiding artificial feeds.)
Great to hear you are avoiding artificial feeds. Seems are lot of beekeepers forget that the honeybee's natural food is pollen, nectar and honey. Robbing all the honey off the bees and feeding them some witches brew and pollen substitute, does not sit well with me.

Is Colony Collapse Disorder still happening in your country?
 
#28 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

Great to hear you are avoiding artificial feeds. Seems are lot of beekeepers forget that the honeybee's natural food is pollen, nectar and honey. Robbing all the honey off the bees and feeding them some witches brew and pollen substitute, does not sit well with me.

Is Colony Collapse Disorder still happening in your country?
where i am located and in most years it is possible to get a decent harvest while leaving enough honey for the bees. i'm not an expert on ccd, but i don't think we have had many very confirmed cases reported for several years now. collapse is most often attributed to varroa and associated viruses.
 
#29 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

I would like to see what kind of tf hybrids the Suffolk and the AL tf bees will make.
Will these hybrids do well when transplanted to other areas?
 
#32 ·
Re: squarepeg 2015

Will these hybrids do well when transplanted to other areas?
it's not been tried with the bees i am using bp, but my guess is that after a generation or two the genetics would meld with whatever is around. beyond genetics, it's possible that these hybrids have adapted to the weather and flora that is local to here and that may somehow impart some advantage to them. i am interested in seeing how they do elsewhere, my hope is to introduce them into ever increasing distances from here and see what happens.
 
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