Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    These also work very well, just cut the end off, bit expensive from this place though.

    http://www.amazon.com/1-5mL-Microcen.../dp/B0017UDKOU

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    >Michael what is the minimum temperature above which I can use this technique without taking big risks?

    I guess it's more art than science. I look at nighttime temps and the density of bees in the hive. If there are plenty of bees and it's not getting below freezing at night it can work. But by the time I have queen cells this usually isn't a problem, so it's more of an issue of how many bees determining where I will put the cells.

    >Michael this technique should be used in late summer when there are still drones or early spring when there is already drones?

    Everything to do with queens works better when there are drones and a flow. So my preference would always be prime swarm season or just before prime swarm season.

    >More important than the temperature is the flow. Is there one?

    Les Crowder quotes one of his teachers saying "A flow makes us all better beekeepers". Everything works better in a flow. And not just a little better...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Hi Guys

    Way back in my Wyoming commercial bee days, I'd raise about 4500 cells/year and use them this way. Initially, during the first 3 years I think, detailed records were kept.Success was about the same as using caged, mated queens.

    But it was much cheaper, easier, and quicker. Overall, it's a great method when:

    - queen cell protectors are used. I used JZBZ.
    - the cells are properly handled. Plastic cups make it much easier.
    - there are plenty of young bees working in the honey dome.
    - it's past the spring swarm season.
    - brood rearing/hive expansion has peaked.
    - no dearth.

    The method:
    - 10 day old queen cells were used.
    - they were placed between frames in the super below the top super.
    - about mid-summer.
    - worked great when done during a second supering round.

    The only problems are working with ripe queen cells. Timing is critical. Cells must be handled carefully.

    I've thought about using younger, more robust cells which could alleviate timing and handled problems. And did a small test:

    http://talkingstickblog.wordpress.co...day-old-cells/

    -dm

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Where exactly do you place the plastic cell in the hive? If there is a super does it go into the super or if there is no super I assume it goes into the upper brood box. Is that correct? Great system.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodedareas View Post
    Where exactly do you place the plastic cell in the hive? If there is a super does it go into the super or if there is no super I assume it goes into the upper brood box. Is that correct? Great system.
    Placement was based on the beekeeper's convience. The only criteria was that it be placed above the broodnest. That's away from the queen and where young bees congregate.

    In practice:

    - time was midsummer.
    - most hives had at least a couple shallow supers on.
    - when not pulling honey, the hive was quickly opened by rotating back the top super.
    - the cell, with protecto,r was inserted between the top bars of the center frames in the super still on the hive.
    - the rotated top super was set back down.
    - when pulling honey, the cell was put in the same location, in a new empty super, on the hive.

    At that time of year, heat could be a problem when setting them beneath a migratory cover. So, in a hive without supers, they were pressed into the brood comb beneath the top bar.

    On several occasions, my co-worker, when faced with darkness and a box full of queen cells ready to hatch, just cracked the hives and literally tossed them in. I wouldn't recommend it. But it seemed to work.

    -dm

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Great lessons in beekeeping you more experienced beekeepers around here have given .
    Simplicity and gain time , two key criteria for a profitable and extensive beekeeping, as advocated by the great Argentine beekeeper Manuel Oksman.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Bees will quite often raise a second queen above an excluder if there are viable eggs there. So if you raise your own queen, separate the hives by an excluder and next day place an open cell in there. They will raise the larvae, cap her and release her. Now you have a two queen hive with shared heat and massive potential population. Virgins are quite easy to introduce into a queen-less hive if they are less than a day old and if the queen has been gone for a day or two. After that age, I find bees to be quite unwelcoming. They will almost always take care of an open queen cell in areas that have not been visited by a queen recently.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    ...>More important than the temperature is the flow. Is there one?

    Les Crowder quotes one of his teachers saying "A flow makes us all better beekeepers". Everything works better in a flow. And not just a little better...
    And Randy Oliver says that is is usually more economical for him to move his bees to a flow than to feed them. He tries to go all year without feeding them, instead preferring to move them onto the next bloom. I think I'm seeing a pattern here...

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by AramF View Post
    Bees will quite often raise a second queen above an excluder if there are viable eggs there.
    I also use this method to create a lot of my new queens .

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Eduardo, don't forget one main draw back from re queening with cells, mating success runs 75-85%.
    Be sure to check up in two weeks

  12. #31
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo Gomes View Post
    I also use this method to create a lot of my new queens .
    Any special considerations? Or just placing a frame with eggs above the excluder?
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  13. #32
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Eduardo, don't forget one main draw back from re queening with cells, mating success runs 75-85%.
    Be sure to check up in two weeks
    Ian, thank you for your reminder.

  14. #33
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Any special considerations? Or just placing a frame with eggs above the excluder?
    My process is divided into two phases .
    Step 1 ) Put the excluder on top of the nest on a very strong hive with lots of young bees ; I put a box equal to the nest above the excluder ; I'll get to a hive that interests me the genetic line a frame with eggs . I landmark this frames . I took Other two frames from another hives with opened and closed creation ( hives preferably more prone to swarm ) and two other frames with honey and pollen from other hives. Give a little smoke by the entrance , or hit with a stick outside the nest for the bees climb .

    Step 2 ) After 5 to 6 days back to this hive, I destroy on the marked frame closed queen cells and leave them open and I destroy queen cells if they are there in the others frames. Give a little smoke at the entrance to rise some more bees . Step all of the 6 of these frames with the bees that are clinging to a new box and closing it , this new box I take it for another apiary always more than 3 Km .

    I have 400 beehives, practically all queens were created by me (more than 300 hives sold in these years ), and never made a pick. My bees choose hers future mother from the beggining, not me.
    This year I need to begin with picks.
    Last edited by Eduardo Gomes; 11-21-2014 at 01:08 AM. Reason: clarifiying phrases

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Eduardo, don't forget one main draw back from re queening with cells, mating success runs 75-85%.
    Just about the same % with mating nucs.......
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  16. #35
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Queenright queenrearing is described in this concise paper by Wilkinson and Brown.

    I use this method a lot to produce queens.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    Just about the same % with mating nucs.......
    ......that is what I am saying. To re queen your operation this way leaves 10-15% of the hives in trouble. A lot of large hives are exposed to risk of failure. Further assessments are needed to salvage problem hives.
    Its why most queen with cells in small units.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    ......that is what I am saying. To re queen your operation this way leaves 10-15% of the hives in trouble. A lot of large hives are exposed to risk of failure.
    True, but in this scenario, you possibly still have the old queen which ups your %
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
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  19. #38
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    True, but in this scenario, you possibly still have the old queen which ups your %
    I also perspectival, like snl, that in cases where the new queen, for some reason, is not fertilized , there is no problem that beehive become orphan because it has the old queen. As I never used this technique my reasoning may be failing at some point...?

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduardo Gomes View Post
    As I never used this technique my reasoning may be failing at some point...?
    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    True, but in this scenario, you possibly still have the old queen which ups your %
    Not in my experience. The virgin immediately kills the old queen, then carries on to mate and rule her new hive. Its almost a rule that virgins will kill off the old queen. They are quicker and more agile. During my spring time queen work, I hate virgins...
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Replace the queen of quick and simple way : is it true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Its almost a rule that virgins will kill off the old queen.
    I see. So the process becomes much more risky and laborious. Thank you Ian .

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