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Thread: Please Stop...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, OH
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    140

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    I don't post very much, but here is the problem I have with the treatment vs treatment free debate and the new member advise.

    1. If you treat aparently that's the only way to do things.
    2. If your treatment free aparently there's 500 other "treatment free" things your have to do to keep bees alive; ie wrap, mite counts, the million wintering "tricks", screened bottoms, etc etc the "list" (and don't critisice me for natural vs treatment free vs that's not a treatment here, I'm generalizing.)
    3. There's the commercial treatment way vs the hobby treatment way vs the treatment free hobby way vs the (few mind you) treatment free commercial way vs the I just have a hive a tree in my backyard way.
    4. There's the well you don't run your hives for honey way vs the I just want to help the garden way vs everything else.

    You guys get the point I'm making, there are obviously different things needed for different scenarios ( as with everything in life) and to be honest, in large part I don't hear many different percentages for losses from TF beekeeper as I do treatment beekeepers.

    If a commercial guy treat because that's what dad did, and that's what's working, why fix what isn't broke? If the guy down the road has success being TF why would he fix what isn't broke?

    I think more beekeepers are to blame for dead bees than chemicals, mites, winter, and starvation combined. ( gonna catch some flak for that one) So personally I'm tired of both sides of the fence. I think the problem lies with people doing to much to there hives, TF and T, just leave them be bees.

    The only thing that matters is what you want, I dump my bees in a box, and then don't even look at the hive for months, my bees are alive. That's what I want bees, because that's what I sell. I don't treat or do anything special to my hives, but there are many locally that do, that's A ok to, they get what they want from there hives.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
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    1,618

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    I learned early on in my real estate career that there are people who have been in the business for 2 or 3 years that have 2 or 3 year's experience. There are others who have been in the business for 20 years and have 1 year's experience 20 times.
    Hey, that's priceless. I may use that one from time to time

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lake Worth, Florida, USA
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    235

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    Say what? How did I slap the newbies?
    Hahahaha! Sorry it wasn't clear. I was agreeing with your post. The slapping comment was regarding the original post.
    South Florida, 9 hives, TF, foundation free, slatted racks, bottom entrances, zone 10b

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
    Posts
    2,420

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by cheezer32 View Post
    I think more beekeepers are to blame for dead bees than chemicals, mites, winter, and starvation combined. ( gonna catch some flak for that one) So personally I'm tired of both sides of the fence. I think the problem lies with people doing to much to there hives, TF and T, just leave them be bees.


    many times dead bees = crappy beekeeping!

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    3,112

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by CessnaGirl View Post
    Hahahaha! Sorry it wasn't clear. I was agreeing with your post. The slapping comment was regarding the original post.
    I thought so.

    My post was regarding people in Utica who have 9,615 post as of 1:17 pm today
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,661

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    --shinbone
    (1975-1980, and now since 2011; maintain about 10 hives; Zone 5b; 15" rain; 5500')

  8. #27
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canandaigua, NY
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    Also please remember that post count is not proportional to experience.
    This is also true with how many hives one has. Just because they have 50 or 1000, dont mean they are an expert.

    This is also true with if they were gloves or not, just because to dont or do, dont make you an expert.

    I cant tell you how many times a new beekeeper thinks the most experienced person in the room is the one with the most hives or the one who wear's the least working them. You can know a lot and wear a full suit or work in shorts and no veil, that is just your comfort level.
    Ben
    Hungry Bear Farms, www.HungryBearFarms.com Beekeeping Supplies and More...!

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,640

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by dsegrest View Post
    I'm a new beekeeper (2 years). I am a REALTOR for 30 years. I learned early on in my real estate career that there are people who have been in the business for 2 or 3 years that have 2 or 3 year's experience. There are others who have been in the business for 20 years and have 1 year's experience 20 times.
    I really do not know how you measure "experience" - the speed of learning is different for different people/situation. For hobbyist, 2-3 years experience is quite substantial. For professional - it is reasonable also. At the college level - 2-3 years professional experience sounded good. At university level, 30 years experience is nothing, you are outdated , you need to retire and change the subject (bees may be?). I do not believe that one can progressively learn on very same subject for 20 years. For 5-7 years - may be, thereafter - it is a saturation, plateau. At beesource I do not observe the correlation between years of expertise, number of posts, smartness, ability to help others, manners, politeness, ability to dialog etc. I observed that in many cases, suggestions of 2-3 year bee learners are good because they are in the process of learning and open to share their findings with others. Knowledge and expertise/experience are different things. I am a hobbyist and honestly have no respect to "experience." My position on it is that beekeeping in US is in crisis now and we need fresh brains, new ideas to invent new approaches to mitigate existing problems. This "backyard," "backward" bee-keeping, TF, TBH you name it - is all about approaches to develop beekeeping techniques. During this process, people made mistakes and learn from them. It is creative process. This process must continue. Nothing personal!
    Last edited by cerezha; 10-08-2014 at 01:22 AM. Reason: ESL
    Серёжа, Sergey

  10. #29
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    Apr 2011
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    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Having limited experience I try to walk the fine line by participating in the forum offering thoughts, ideas and experiences without the suggestion that it's my post are of any particular value. I'm sure I often fall short.

    Anyone with access to a computor can post here. They can even sound smart, experienced etc.if they can use google decently.

    I can answer any question you may have about almond pollination even tell you where to have coffee while you are there. I've never seen an almond tree.

    Even the guys that have run 1000's of hives for years post their advice for free and you know what they say about free advice!

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    mineral county,Montana USA
    Posts
    1,325

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    a person is responsible for the advise they take, especially from the internet. it's easy to find information and advise that confirms what we want to believe, but that is not usually the right answer. a good beekeeper will have success with most schools of thought, an inexperienced beekeeper will struggle even using all the tricks. for me beekeeping has not been instinctive, but my original expectations were not very reasonable.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    9,340

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mbeck View Post
    and you know what they say about free advice!
    take every penny of it! lol
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #32
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    Apr 2011
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    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    take every penny of it! lol
    I was think more along the lines of "you get what you pay for" or Free advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but don't like it.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Buckeye, AZ, USA
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    83

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    My intent with the focused, angered humor was to have these brand new "experts" take a look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are really helping or just trying to reach some assumed level of recognition. Before this post I was having a discussion (in a different forum) with a new beekeeper who asked why his hive had spotty brood and was dying off. I asked if he treated for mites or did a mite count. The individual stated he wanted to be treatment free. I said ok, but you can probably count that hive as a loss then. That is when out of no where I was verbally bashed in the head by a "expert" that typed paragraph after paragraph after paragraph after paragraph of why TF is the way to go, what I am doing wrong, how to raise survivor stock, etc. So I'm like, who is this clown? I follow some of several links he uses to substantiate his royal awesomness, from facebook to youtube to instagram to google+, and you can tell with a few years experience that the guy is new to this. Plus, when visible, his accounts had start dates of 2012. The info he gives is spotty and basic, he is misleading and leaving important information out. Anyway. I knew it was totally futile to continue the discussion since I would politely agree with his good info and the goals he was shooting for, but he would still act defensive as if I were attacking his ideas. At that point I just deleted myself from that small forum since he had apparently built his base of operations there and was defending his territory to the death.
    I don't want censorship. I would like to see a self-awareness in the level of experience and competence one holds. I am just getting into my 5th year. I just started experimenting with different methods of making my own queens. I am sure no one would appreciate it if I started giving advice on every queen grafting thread that comes up when the extent of my knowledge is youtube videos, 2 books and no hands on. Now if you want to know at what temperatures in the desert heat I have lost hives and different methods of providing shade that holds up to monsoon winds, I'm pretty good at that.
    Although it is frustratingly entertaining to watch his videos, I am not going to outs this clown. I'm sure it won't be long before he is doing videos on how to install packages to replace the hives he lost from his lack of knowledge.
    Thanks for the vent session.
    Last edited by Barry; 02-28-2015 at 07:26 AM. Reason: language

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ridgeville, SC, USA
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    556

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Warning..I am in my first year. Lol...Speaking for myself, prior to taking the plunge I read several books and took a beginner bee course. I had a lot of questions and the frustrating thing was the answers. I wanted 1 clear answer. I now realize why so many answers and if it works today it may not work tomorrow. I appreciate the information I receive here but I do try and filter it as best as I can.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Benton county, Arkansas
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Yes dear.

    Quote Originally Posted by dingo983 View Post
    PLEASE! If you are a 2 or 3 year beekeeper who is religious militant of the treatment free cult or not....STOP giving advice to new beekeepers like you have 50 years experience. Just because you read Michael Bush's or Randy Oliver's website, does not give you the right or knowledge to impersonate or give information, without disclaimer (example: hey, I've only been doing this for 3 years, but this is what I do) leading new beekeepers into failure while driving experienced beekeepers into the shadows due to the frustration of dealing with your ego and insatiable desire to be recognized. Also don't start a beekeeping instructional youtube page with your brand new, bleach snow white bee suit and your 6 shiny, freshly painted hives in your back yard and preach to me how your treatment free "survivor stock" is far superior to anything out there. Catching swarms and putting them in a box and using theories from 5th grade science class on Darwinism does NOT make you a pioneer in the hobby or industry, you are barely B.S.ing your way through the video while making a fool out of yourself.......I think I covered it all....if not, insert a run on sentence rant of your own below.

    P.S. Nothing against treatment free beekeepers with more than 2 - 3 years who understand how to create queens of exceptional stock and not just shake a swarm off a branch and call them "survivor stock"

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Caledonia,michigan
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    208

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkwoodsbees View Post
    Warning..I am in my first year. Lol...Speaking for myself, prior to taking the plunge I read several books and took a beginner bee course. I had a lot of questions and the frustrating thing was the answers. I wanted 1 clear answer. I now realize why so many answers and if it works today it may not work tomorrow. I appreciate the information I receive here but I do try and filter it as best as I can.
    Same here. The thing I see here are the questions might be the same but the answers are always changing.

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Ithaca, NY USA
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    1,618

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    I really do not know how you measure "experience" - the speed of learning is different for different people/situation.
    Most things in life have to be learned the hard way. Experience shows in subtle ways. You may a great driver in your home town, on familiar roads, in your own car. But put into rush hour traffic in NYC, or in an unfamiliar vehicle, and we'll see how you do. Or maybe you have had the experience where she said: "New at this, are you?" You don't know what experience you lack, until you realize you don't have it.
    Last edited by peterloringborst; 10-08-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  19. #38
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    Jan 2014
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    Lake Worth, Florida, USA
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    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    Most things in life have to be learned the hard way. Experience shows in subtle ways. You may a great driver in your home town, on familiar roads, in your own car. But put into rush hour traffic in NYC, or in an unfamiliar vehicle, and we'll see how you do. Or maybe you have had the experience where she said: "New at this, are you?" You don't what experience you lack, until you realize you don't have it.
    Well said. As my flight instructor used to say, "You don't know what you don't know," or as to an old timer's expert experience, "He's forgotten more than I will ever know." And, I must say, he is a brilliant man, a true (and tested) genius with many talents - he is scared of bees, though. It's made me tread lightly in respect to others' most experienced opinions.
    South Florida, 9 hives, TF, foundation free, slatted racks, bottom entrances, zone 10b

  20. #39
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    Ithaca, NY USA
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    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Whoops. Should be
    You don't know what experience you lack, until you realize you don't have it.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    5,197

    Default Re: Please Stop...

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    Whoops. Should be
    You don't know what experience you lack, until you realize you don't have it.
    Even then, you will not know what experience you do lack.....because if you did, you'd have done that in the first place!
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

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