Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!
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  1. #1
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    Default Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Hopefully we can convert some of the TF folks to OAV and give some doubters of OAV a "nudge" to convert.

    From Mountain Bee:

    Just a update. Did my first OA treatment late yesterday evening,it hasn't been 24hrs yet and there is hundreds of dead mites on the sticky boards (to many to count) of the hives that I treated. Bees look to be in good shape and mites are dead,so far appears to be the best treatment I have come across but time will tell. Hopefully this will decrease some of my winter losses. Thanks again.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

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  3. #2
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I could say "works for me". Seriously though, I am probably in quite a unique situation by being very isolated from any kept bees and there are no ferals here. I have been doing one OA vaporization spring and fall for the last two years and am finding zero mites on drone frames and burr comb that I pull larvae from. 100% survival last two winters with 3 and 8 hives respectively. I dont think anything even comes close to matching oxalic acid on a cost per treatment basis or ease of application.

  4. #3
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    May 2013
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Doubt this thread will have much effect on the TF guys but you can count me in the works for me group. I tried TF, then tried Fogging with FGMO and sugar dusting, then as a last resort applied chemical strips. Then, finally tried OAV. Seeing the 24 hour sticky board covered with dead mites the next day and I was sold. I had no dead bees other than two that got on the hot vaporizer. Matter of fact, bees took very little notice that I was treating them. If I didn't block the entrance, I don't think they would care at all. I have not lost a hive since I started using OAV except for some that didn't re-queen following a swarm and where robbed. So far, no overwinter losses, but my winters, aren't brutal. Got down to 15 twice last year, but never more than 4 days where is was cold enough they can't break cluster. That puts all available stores within reach during most of the winter. Of course mild short winters mean HOT LONG summers and that means LOTS of mites as we have a very long brood season.

    I'm trying TF again on a few hives with TF stock. Trying to go TF without TF stock to start with is heartbreaking....
    Robbin NW Florida(8A) / 14 hives / 5 Nucs / 6th Year / T {OAV & MMK}

  5. #4
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    May 2014
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Going to get a battery for my new vaporizer in the AM. Will a lawnmower battery work?

  6. #5
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    Baden Wurtemburg Germany
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I wont open a hive once it's dark, so I can't use quite a few of the other treatment methods if I am late home from work. But I can pop the vaporizer in and treat. Works well for me.
    Stephen 40+ hives. 6th year. Treat. Germany.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Quote Originally Posted by dsegrest View Post
    Going to get a battery for my new vaporizer in the AM. Will a lawnmower battery work?
    It will, but you'll need to "test fire" it outside the hive first as it may take longer to vaporize than normal. Since you're getting a new battery, why not a car battery as it's not that much more...........
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  8. #7
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    Mar 2014
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    Milford, Michigan USA
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I am getting excellent results with my vaporizer. I use a diehard lawn tractor battery. I have 5 hives and although I can get all five treated the last one is iffy, so I do 3 and recharge then do the last 2. I use a gas mask. I already had the battery, if I were to buy one I agree with Larry and would purchase an auto battery.

  9. #8
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    Jun 2013
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    Murfreesboro, Arkansas
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    34

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I just started using OAV this summer. There is no doubt oxalic acid kills mites. I have observed massive mite drops after treatment. The first 48 hours seems to have the highest drop and then a few more on the third day. However, when colonies are brooding heavily, the 3 treatments at 7 day intervals didn't do the trick for me. My estimate was about 50% reduction in total mites after the three treatments. After a few more weeks of heavy brooding, that 50% will be back to 100% plus interest. So you've basically bought a little time for the colony. If you treat when the colony is brood less, you will get nearly all the mites and you've bought the colony a lot of time. For me it is too much effort and gas to drive to the outyards for a 50% reduction in mites. I think that 4 or more treatments 5 days apart may be far more effective. But I don't have the time for that. Going forward, I plan to use OAV at any opportunity I have a brood less hive. When nucs or colonies raise their own queen, there will be a window of time where the hive has no capped brood. A newly caught swarm would also benefit from a shot of OAV. During late summer when mite counts are soaring and the hives are brooding heavily, I will have to use another form of treatment.

  10. #9
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    Apr 2010
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    Merryville, Louisiana
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    218

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I have also tried to go TF. I had a bad spell of health issues, lots of times in hospital, and also time in rehabbing from this. I lost all of my bee hives except one, my ole Granny Hive, the original one I started with, she is a true survivor classic lady. Many swarms have come from her, and I got my stock up to what I wanted.

    This year, bought 2 nucs from a local beek, and my brother brought me two swarms, and in July, I captured a nice small swarm in my front yard. All are doing extremely well.

    I am not postive what killed my bees, some left their hives full of stores and honey, disappeared. One did succumb to the blasted moths, but the rest, I suspect to the mites. I do have SHB problems here, too, but so far, have been able to keep them in check.
    Then I started researching and reading all I could how to solve the mite problems.

    I elected to go with the Oxalic Acid Vaporization and I love it. I finished all my hives yesterday, and won't know till later how all goes. I have high hopes and expectations for it. It's really fast, and cheap, once you get over the cost of the applicator. I bought a 5# bulk of acid on Amazon for a neat price, so I should be able to treat as often and as much as I need to.

    Once you do it, have your timer, powder, tool, battery, etc. all ready. Seems like no time, you are finished. I love it. Did not seem to bother most of the hives, some got a little frisky, not much, tho.

    All I can say, try it, you'll like it. I guess you may say I'm lazy, I like to do stuff the easy way if I can. I love my bees, and I will do what is necessary to make their lives the very best I can. No, I'm not commerical. Usually give my honey away to kinfolks, neighbors, and my fellow church members. Most all are glad to get this "God's Gift" made by His experts with his flowers/plants.

    Best to all,
    Casper

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I do not do mite drop counts. I observe colony behavior and productivity.

    Since May of 2012 I have treated my first colony in July of that year. productivity was nearly none existent and I was seeing other indications of heavy mite infestation. After one treatment activity of the colony picked up and the colony eventually produced a harvest able amount of honey. but not a lot. In the spring of 2013 I had 4 colonies and treated all of them in May. At the end of 2013 we had 27 colonies and again they where all treated prior to winter setting in. we had an extremely mild winter 2013 to 2014. In the spring of this year we did not treat due to finding no indication of mites in any colonies. later we captured swarms that we did find mites on and still did not treat. In July of this year we noticed none productivity in all hives but did not attribute this to mite loads But other environmental factors. no other indications of mite infestation where observed. Recently colony population growth has not been consistent with brood production so I decided it is time to treat again. we applied the second of three treatments as of yesterday. It has been over a year since treating these hives. We now have 40. Produced a lot more this year and sold them.

    OAV works and it works well. I think it also works on a lot more than Varroa as well. It is the only treatment we use regularly. I was using Fumagillin B for the first year we have abandoned that practice. I have never used other mite control products. I am not a TF advocate but I am a preventions is better than a cure and strong and healthy solves most everything type.

    I do far more to keep bees strong and thriving than I ever do treating. But when colonies simply will not thrive. treatment may very well be the next answer.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Mixed experience with OAV.

    1. OAV overdose can kill hives outright. OAV is toxic to bees, and the therapeutic-to-toxic ratio is narrow. OAV has shifted from a 1x application, to a 3x at 7 day interval, to a 4x at 5 day interval prescription. Obviously, in the repeated application, hives will be approaching the toxic threshold. The 4x-5 day prescription is ad hoc and annecdotal --- I don't see any research on the limits to this, or how the hives buffers the accumulated application.

    2. Like Dan (above), OAV is noticeably less effective than Fluvinate, Amitraz or Formic on the total population of mites. During the exponential phase (September in my climate) mite populations resaturate a hive in just days. Notes: Fluvinate is still effective on my local mites (though I only use it tests, not as a matter of course). Lethal mite levels are a fraction of the exponential population generated when the drone resident population is released in September.

    Positive:

    1. OAV appears far less toxic than OAV dribble or Formic to queens in my experience.
    2. Response to OAV on "crawlers" is very rapid (24 hours or less), there may be a virus therapeutic effect (pH shifts in the bee?) that goes unreported.

    On balance,
    The economy and relative safety of OAV (to humans and queens) make it a remarkably good choice for the backyard hive.

    I wish a controlled trial of the 1x, 3x and 4x protocols were published.

    I sense that the optimal treatment window for OAV should be investigated. Pre-brood-up in earliest spring is obvious choice. I also think the fall/dearth drone transition period is essential as the resident drone brood mites must be on the move in that window.

  13. #12
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Quote Originally Posted by JWChesnut View Post
    Mixed experience with OAV.

    1. OAV overdose can kill hives outright. OAV is toxic to bees, and the therapeutic-to-toxic ratio is narrow. OAV has shifted from a 1x application, to a 3x at 7 day interval, to a 4x at 5 day interval prescription. Obviously, in the repeated application, hives will be approaching the toxic threshold. The 4x-5 day prescription is ad hoc and annecdotal --- I don't see any research on the limits to this, or how the hives buffers the accumulated application.
    JW......I'm sure an overdose of OAV can kill bees outright, but a gram per brood chamber is not an overdose, it is the recommended dosage based on many studies. I have treated my hives now going on 3 years with OAV in the multiple treatment mode and have experienced no toxic threshold reactions. The hives are thriving. While the 3 or 4 times 5 day treatment may seem ad hoc or anecdotal with hives that have brood, it is not. It coincides with the emergence of mites with the brood. You want to kill those mites as they are emerging and before they have a chance to enter a brood cell and start breeding again.
    OAV during the brooding period is labor intensive for a commercial beekeeper and there are better choices until a quicker method of applying OA is found at a reasonable price. However, for those who wish (or have the time) to do so using OAV three or four times in a 5 day treatment program works and works well.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the ProVap 110
    OA Vaporizer. The fastest vaporizer on the market!

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Worked for me too.
    Last year I treated only using OAV - 4 times in Autumn. Next treatments were made this August but this time formic acid.
    I overdosed last year by mistake and had no problems (~6g/2 deeps)
    Dfa (Humid continental warm summer climate)

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    I agree that when the bees are sick they need to be treated to prevent the death of the colony. There are many
    treatment methods that are affective too. I have read that the OAV over time the mites can build resistant to them. What is the next method of
    treatment after that?

    I have not treat my hives on 3 years of beekeeping. I gave them a brood break during the summer
    time by requeening all my hives for 2 months with nucs broods to support the hive population.
    Since there is no nectar flow in the dearth here every summer so I have to feed them.
    Then on the early Fall flow the new queens started to build up the nest. This is the time
    that they are doing it. Going into the Fall and winter will be some nice fat bees to overwinter with. So far I have
    not see any mite infestation on any of my hives on hive observation. All my comb are 80% small size cells so I don't know
    if it is due to this or not to minimize the mite infestation. The local bee farm where I got my queens from said they are the survivor local stock that resist the mites with built in VSH genetics. I am happy with this brood break method and local VSH survivor stocks so far. The after the solstice queens made 1 month ago really building up the nest with this end of summer/Fall flow. In 2 more weeks my mid-summer Borage will be blooming to give them a boost of feed. I think it is not just one method of treatment but a combination of all the right key elements according to your local environment to make beekeeping work. What do you think?
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    I have read that the OAV over time the mites can build resistant to them.


    Then on the early Fall flow the new queens started to build up the nest. This is the time that they are doing it. Going into the Fall and winter will be some nice fat bees to overwinter with.

    So far I have not see any mite infestation on any of my hives on hive observation.

    I think it is not just one method of treatment but a combination of all the right key elements according to your local environment to make beekeeping work. What do you think?
    I think that beekeeping is similar to driving a car. you have to do what you have to do when you have to do it. And so you best be paying attention. And for every moment you have a range of options.

    What methods do you use to observe for mites in your hive? I know that if I simply relied on seeing them hitch hiking on the backs of bees I would never have any idea of the mite situation in my colonies. I pull drone brood. They are easy to spot on a pupa.

    I have not heard supported claims that Mites develop resistance to OAV. Given OA does not effect the mites by toxicity I do not think they could. Treatment may miss some but that woudl not result in development of resistance. Resistance to OAV would be a little like saying someone developed a resistance to explosions simply because they had survived several bombings.

    As for mite populations and mite build up. It always seems a little strange to me when people say when my brood populations are low either naturally or artificially. mite numbers are low. They then report this as some benefit that allows them to build up brood populations. Brood is where mites live. little brood few mites. lots of brood more mites and mites reproduce faster than bees do so if conditions where correct for bees to build up it was also correct for the mites to build up. It just seems a little presumptuous to to watch a colony population build but assume you somehow did something devastating to prevent the mites from doing the very same thing. It stands to reason for me that they do, and they are better at it than the bees are.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  17. #16
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    May 2014
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Yesterday, I pulled the mite-board that I had placed under the hive on Tuesday. The count was 48. I had 63 a week ago, but a week before that I had begun putting vinegar in the sugar-water. that is a form of acid treatment that should work the same as OAV. I am not sure whether the high mite count before was a result of mites being killed by the vinegar or whether it was just a very high infestation that has been reduced by the vinegar. A queenless hive had a count of 22 in the earlier period and was not monitored this time.

    48 is still unacceptable.

    I got a lawn tractor battery yesterday and plugged in the vaporizer to see if the battery needed charging. I was really impressed with the speed of the heating. I barely had the thing connected when smoke was coming off of the reservoir. I will treat 2 hives today. I will treat the hive at my office tomorrow. The sticky board is going in the office hive in a few minutes. I will post results here of the weekend mite drop, which should be very high if the oav works. Then we will see what the count is next weekend before the second treatment.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    What causes you to think that Vinegar would work the same as OAV?
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  19. #18

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Quote Originally Posted by MichiganMike View Post
    I use a diehard lawn tractor battery. I have 5 hives and although I can get all five treated the last one is iffy, so I do 3 and recharge then do the last 2.
    I have a garden variety lawnmower battery that lives in my lawnmower during the spring/summer and is removed for my vaporizer in fall. I'll charge it and have done twenty hives between charges without noticeable degradation. Granted....it is a different brand vaporizer than the one that Randy Oliver ranked as 'one of the highest'.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    What causes you to think that Vinegar would work the same as OAV?
    vinegar is a much milder acid than oxalic acid; but it is an acid. According to the scientific beekeeper, the acid in the hive or in the hemolymph of the bees is what kills the mites. The vinegar in the feed gets into the bee's system when they eat it.

  21. #20

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizer Results - Users post here!

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    So far I have
    not see any mite infestation on any of my hives on hive observation. What do you think?
    If you believe you can judge your mite infestation by observation...you have no idea. beepro? You might need to change that name.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

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