The Russian Scion
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Saint-Denis de La Réunion (France Indian Ocean)
    Posts
    43

    Default The Russian Scion

    I found a almost unknown device for us but which is of a common use in every russian apiary

    the "Scion" - (Привой и роевня)

    it is a trap or a shelter to catch the swarm as early as possible without (may be) climbing trees.



    Can you find it here on the plan?



    There are many "designs" but it is commonly settled not far and in front of the hives entrances , one or several of them according to the size of the apiary

    The traditional model is a 20-30 cm wide and 30-40 cm plank with one cleat fixed vertically in the middle , more or less rolled with burlap and coated with
    alcoholic solution of propolis and flavoured with essential oils (lemongrass, etc.)

    as on this blog


    the "scion" is then hanged at around 2 to 2,5 m high.


    It seems to work !


    and the use of one or more old frame is not forbidden


    or an old propolised burlap

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    2,291

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    For years I kept a propolis/wax soaked burlap bag hanging in front of my hives about 8 feet off the ground. Over the years, it caught several swarms, and stayed there until it rotted away.

    Then when I started selling nucs about 2001 I did not replace it because my hives are split so often they don't get large enough to swarm any more. It is a good idea.

    cchoganjr

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,967

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Would this be better than a swarm trap in your apiary?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    2,291

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    shannonswyatt... Not really. I had it in addition to swarm boxes set out.

    It has an advantage of getting a fat queen that cannot fly very far to stop in an area where she and the swarm can be seen. But, it needs to be checked about every day to see if a swarm has settled on it.

    Sometimes swarms are difficult to spot if they are in trees, honeysuckly or blackberry vines, And if they do settle on your burlap bag, you still have to put them in a box. In a swarm box they go in on their own and all you have to do is add frames and wait for the queen to lay a few eggs, then move to where you want them.

    It is just one more tool to help you in the event one of your hives swarms, or a neighbor's hive swarms and comes looking at yours.

    cchoganjr

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
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    1,967

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    I need to see if that little girl has any free time to help me build one or two. Can't get my kids of the computers!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Macon County, NC
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    I am getting ready to make 3 splits from my Italian hives so I can introduce 3 Russian queens. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. How often do Russians swarm?
    Ketuel

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    6,032

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Interesting... I like the concept. Trying to decide if it's less of a hassle than just doing a swarm trap, I wouldn't have a hive tied up this way and certainly easier to build... My hives aren't really in an area that people are checking frequently enough to make this feasible probably. I'd have to talk with the landowners into checking daily which in some cases wouldn't be a problem.
    My initial thought is that this should be almost a hood ornament for anyone with a top bar hive.

    Quote Originally Posted by shannonswyatt View Post
    I need to see if that little girl has any free time to help me build one or two. Can't get my kids of the computers!
    Better get that under control!

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Neat post thanks for sharing.
    Kamon Reynolds https://youtu.be/VQ9T1mCo5l4 Grafting Queens

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Macon County, NC
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Is it possible to do a split from Italian bees & requeen with a Russian queen?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Oh yes. I would keep the cork in for 2 days then without smoke pop out the cork and let them eat thru the candy. A little extra time helps insure acceptance. This method has worked for us on several dozens of Russian introductions
    Kamon Reynolds https://youtu.be/VQ9T1mCo5l4 Grafting Queens

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Macon County, NC
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Thank you so much. . I bought some requeening frames & push in frames to try. Have you tried either of these? which do you prefer?
    I think the queens are coming in those funny looking plastic cages. I also have a muff to try.
    With all your experience, which breed of bees do you like best & why.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Fort Gay, WV, USA
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    2,064

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketuel View Post
    Is it possible to do a split from Italian bees & requeen with a Russian queen?
    Yes but it takes 5 days for the bees to accept a russian due to diff in pheramones
    Thomas Bartram

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Sidney, Montana, USA
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    113

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Thank you for posting the info and the pictures about the Scion that is interesting

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Macon County, NC
    Posts
    30

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Thank you so much. After tomarrow, I'll have my orignal 2 Italian hives and 3 Russian.
    Mites & hive beetles are really bad here in the south. I just got a Oxalic Acid Vaporizer. This thing is a miracle.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Strafford County, NH
    Posts
    2,411

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Thank goodness for the translate function.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Heber Springs, Arkansas, USA
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    145

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    What type of alcohol do you use to mix with propolis ?

  18. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
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    1,967

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Quote Originally Posted by bbbthingmaker View Post
    What type of alcohol do you use to mix with propolis ?
    I tried Vodka, but it wasn't strong enough to break down propolis. You would probably need grain alcohol.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    HARLAN, KY,USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    How much propolis should be put in a half pint of alcohol.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Craig County, Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    109

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    [QUOTE=jwcarlson;1282854]Interesting... I like the concept. Trying to decide if it's less of a hassle than just doing a swarm trap, I wouldn't have a hive tied up this way and certainly easier to build... My hives aren't really in an area that people are checking frequently enough to make this feasible probably. I'd have to talk with the landowners into checking daily which in some cases wouldn't be a problem.
    My initial thought is that this should be almost a hood ornament for anyone with a top bar hive.



    You don't have to catch the swarm every time they land on it. It just makes it easier to find if you are there at that time before they swarm off somewhere else. They are going to sit somewhere limb, bush, etc anyway. If your not there at that time same as if you didn't have it. If it's on days your there woohoo. I'd keep the swarm trap idea going, but the scion could make sure you get them not a nice tree with a hollow hole.
    I think it's worth a shot and pretty neat.
    Thanks to the thread starter. DocBB

  21. #20
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    6,736

    Default Re: The Russian Scion

    Numerous swarms have ignored my Russian Scion. I had high hopes for this. Spent $8 on a pulley to lower the huge swarms down into my box.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrhS...sLorf8olIvQeog

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