Small Cell Claims Debunked - Page 5
Page 5 of 19 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 365
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,229

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    I think that there has been some success in producing EHB/AHB hybrids that aren't overly defensive/aggressive.

    The main issue may be all of the other 'unmanaged' colony characteristics that comes with 'feral'/EHB hybrids.

    They just aren't all that suitable for a commercial operation's management practices.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #82
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,618

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    I think that there has been some success in producing EHB/AHB hybrids that aren't overly defensive/aggressive.
    HI WLC. Do you have evidence of this? Or do you simply "think it"? I read that there are non-vicious African bees in Puerto Rico, but haven't seen them. But these we not "produced" -- I have seen no evidence that breeding strategies work on African bees at all. Quite the opposite. For example, in Brazil millions of Italian queens were raised to ameliorate the African traits. That didn't work.

    The main issue may be all of the other 'unmanaged' colony characteristics that comes with 'feral'/EHB hybrids.
    African bees are feral. They are not managed in any particular sense of the meaning. Beekeepers acquire them, harvest honey, that really isn't different from honey hunting in any material way. Feral hybrids are feral. Only bees coming out of a closed controlled breeding program could be considered as being of a particular type. What you would call it is another matter. For example, Italians in the US are about as Italian as Dominoes pizza

    They just aren't all that suitable for a commercial operation's management practices.
    Again, based on what? African bees are used for commercial beekeeping in Africa, Brazil, Mexico, etc.

    PLB

  4. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,229

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Hiya Peter:

    My own experience is with BeeWeavers (going into my second season).

    Their (Italian/Buckfast) queens are open mated with drones from their yards as well as the 'hybrid swarm' in Texas (some AHB). How much African genetics the resulting workers have is debatable, but it's obviously there.

    They aren't particularly aggressive.

    However, I have observed different morphotypes in the workers (large/small), as well as some decidedly 'undomestic' behaviors.

    They're runny, flighty, vibration sensitive, and they do boil up through frames when you open them up.

    I'll find out just how swarmy they might be soon enough. There's more, but I think I've made my point here.

    It's not that they're unproductive. I just wouldn't want to have to put them on the back of a truck to move them around.

    By the way, I did provide them with small cell PF frames in one super for each colony since I had them around. Yup, I got ladder comb again. D'oh!

  5. #84
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,618

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    My own experience is with BeeWeavers (going into my second season). They aren't particularly aggressive.
    I had about eight full sized colonies of these last summer. Towards September, they got to be pretty much unworkable, since they are so close to my house. I lost them over winter, but I will try another batch. Just not so close to the house.

    PLB

  6. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,229

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    They definitely can register 10 on the 'pucker' meter.

    Do make some observations on some of their non-domestic characteristics so we can compare notes sometime. IMHO, these same behaviors may be indicators of 'resistant stock' and might also make them good candidates for small cell colonies.

  7. #86
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    8,315

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    Have you seen the film "More Than Honey?" PLB
    Off topic, but I have not. Is it good? I went to the website and see it's received a number of awards. (I was disappointed to see that the apparent subtitle is the erroneous Einstein quote that begins "If bees were to disappear...)
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  8. #87
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,618

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Digman View Post
    Off topic, but I have not. Is it good? I went to the website and see it's received a number of awards. (I was disappointed to see that the apparent subtitle is the erroneous Einstein quote that begins "If bees were to disappear...)
    Yeah, that quote is usually a red flag for me too. I thought the film was better than most of the "bees are dying" films I have seen. Much of it was really enlightening, such as the high degree of mechanization and the callous attitude of the California beekeeper. And, the weird almost racist attitude of the Swiss (Austrian?) beekeeper who seemed obsessed by the purity of his bees. My favorite, though, was the Arizona beekeeper who was completely upfront about what it is like to keep African bees in the desert.

    PLB

  9. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ridgeville, SC, USA
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    If you really believe in small cell you have research that supports you and if you don't you have research to support you also. So I guess. It is a matter of choice and not harmful either way. I am brand new at this and I favor the more natural way of doing things, but since large cell has been done for so long is it now natural ? Here in South Carolina feral bees are pretty much gone. Swarms come from bee yards. I have not done any cut outs or ever seen one. I wonder when these old swarms that take up residence in walls or trees do they make small cell comb or do them make large cell?

  10. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    12,001

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    They make both. One cell size is found only in the hives of beekeepers.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,229

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    The best way to see just how many different cell sizes and types your bees will make is to allow them to draw out some foundationless frames. Frankly, I'd say that there is a noticeable difference depending on where in the hive the foundationless frame is drawn.

    It may indicate that the entire hive doesn't need to be small cell, just the brood areas.

  12. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,618

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    In this context, I should point out that ordinary foundation has been in use for well over a hundred years, and many people do not believe that it has any harmful effect. I have used foundationless frames for various reasons and find them very annoying. I guess they would be OK with wire but loose combs in frames are not much better than top bar combs. They twist, flop, and generally behave in ways that a well built comb does not do. I like to hold the combs horizontal to look at the brood, eggs, etc. and unwired combs are prone to fall out of the frames when you do this. I admit I could get used to it, if I wanted to, but why bother? -- just my $.02

    PLB

  13. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,618

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    If you really believe in small cell you have research that supports you
    In science, it doesn't matter what you believe, reality is independent of our beliefs. Faith based systems cannot hold up to scientific scrutiny. I have never even seen research that supports the belief that small cells reduce mites or have any benefit whatsoever. Whereas, many scientists have shown that using small cell foundation does nothing to reduce mites. That is why the title of this thread is "Small Cell Claims Debunked." Again.

    PLB

  14. #93
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    They twist, flop, and generally behave in ways that a well built comb does not do. I like to hold the combs horizontal to look at the brood, eggs, etc. and unwired combs are prone to fall out of the frames when you do this. I admit I could get used to it, if I wanted to, but why bother? -- just my $.02

    PLB
    My thoughts exactly!
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  15. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    12,001

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    That is why the title of this thread is "Small Cell Claims Debunked." Again.
    It uses the word "claims". What are all the claims?
    Regards, Barry

  16. #95
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Seems like the SC crowd could easily put together an experiment to add valuable insight to this debate. You already have bees surviving on SC (I assume for more than a couple of years, 10 years would be great). Make a few splits from your best colonies and put these on LC foundation and (fairly) evaluate what happens over the next few years. As I mentioned before, I don't believe that SC is the biggest factor leading to survival, but this experiment may provide meaningful data.

    Come on SC advocates and put your claims to the test. Everyone seems quick to call out the flaws in these studies, so here's your opportunity to do it right. Shoot, since I'm exclusively LC, just sell me a few of your best queens and I'll run the tests.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  17. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    34,541

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    They make both. One cell size is found only in the hives of beekeepers.
    I'm a beekeeper. None of my hives have only one cell sizes. I use foundation.
    Mark Berninghausen

  18. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    8,103

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Come on SC advocates and put your claims to the test. Everyone seems quick to call out the flaws in these studies, so here's your opportunity to do it right.
    I agree. Even offered a well known SC proponent a slot at EAS 2012 if he could design and implement a study. Nothing ever came of it.

    Every time anyone asks, the SC proponents say they already know SC works, and don't need to prove anything. Whatever.

  19. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    1,222

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    That's because everything works if you let it. ...
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  20. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,229

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    You can't prove cause and effect in a beehive. Only translocation.

    So as for your challenge...

    No Bet.

  21. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Homerville, Ohio
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Small Cell Claims Debunked

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    ...they also have slightly shorter gestational periods and a high propensity to swarm or abscond. No? Mr. DeJong's point is well taken, though. How ironic that the African bee, long considered a scourge, is now being recognized as an ally in the battle against varroa.
    Anyone have any opinions as to why the African strains have a shorter gestation period? Is it possibly due the small cell? This would seem to indicate there is less time for the varroa mite to reproduce. Yes?

    Jim

Page 5 of 19 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •