What would you do with this equipment? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post

    As for the plastic foundation, ya, what do you do when that is infected?

    Crazy Roland
    A suggestion would be to scrape and boil it to remove the wax and comb. Then pop out the plastic foundation and burn the frame. My only other suggestion if it is possible is to take it to an incinerator operation and let them handle it.

    As far as "old" goes the term is not definitive. How old is old? If you were given an active bee hive you might want to use it long enough to change out the equipment. To me there is a difference between used equipment and old equipment. Anything that looked like it was less than 5 years old I would take a chance on, but I don't have a business at risk.

    I have said this before, what is not clear to me is the asset value for bee equipment. When people such as yourself make a comment that you wouldn't use old equipment it leads me to believe it depreciates rapidly.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The problems can take a few years to pop up, and by then you have mixed the infected equipment in with all of your uninfected equipment.
    Crazy Roland
    What causes that length of a delay? Is it embedded spores that are released over time?
    I've never had to deal with it, but I always assumed that it caused a fairly rapid decline.
    To everything there is a season....

  4. #23
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    What causes that length of a delay? Is it embedded spores that are released over time?
    The spores find there way into the honey the honey is fed to the brood the bacteria grows in the brood and produces more spores. The spore count and bacteria gets so high that the colony gets an infection and collapses. Robbing spreads the disease.

    What might make the difference between an infected colony and a healthy colony could be hygienic behavior. Infected brood being pulled out and dumped away from the hive.

    This is all conjecture on my part.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #24
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Fields... wrote:

    If you wouldn't use it in your own apiary, why would you warn someone else and try to sell it to them?

    Because they may not be crazy like me and think it has value. I would warn them to be fair.

    Ace:

    I do use about 300 hives worth of used/old equipment. There is nothing wrong with 99 percent of it. Being old or used, is not a problem IF IT IS NOT INFECTED. The one percent that is infected puts the whole 300 hives at risk. We use hte "shaken method" , and melt down all the infected comb and replace foundation. You CANNOT boil off the plastic foundation we have, the plastic will shrink and warp. A pressure washer works, but is way too slow to do more that 20 frames.

    What causes that length of a delay? Is it embedded spores that are released over time?

    I believe the spores are in the wax and cocoons, and are exposed when the bees chew it down when the cell walls get too thick. If the hive is stressed at that time, they will have a lower threshold and will show clinical symptoms of AFB. Might there be different genetic thresholds? Probably, which is why we mark the hive and it is not allowed to reproduce.

    crazy Roland

  6. #25
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    Jul 2012
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    Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Yes, purchased nucs are always a risk. My local inspector advised any time I buy a nuc I should put it in a quarantine yard. Good advice.

  7. #26
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    Jan 2010
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    Brandenburg, KY
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    We used a boiling lye bath to disinfect equipment. Never had any problems with boxes or frames. Frames came out clean, looking brand new. Did boxes last as the lye will take off the paint. Was a big operation but interesting to do. Still haven't used all the equipment and we did that 3 yrs ago. Don't know if I would do it again. A lot of work.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    You CANNOT boil off the plastic foundation we have, the plastic will shrink and warp.
    When I suggested boiling the frames the intent was to strip off the wax and propolis with no intention of saving the foundation. The foundation would be trashed and the frame burnt. I believe the comment was after a question of what to do with frames that have plastic foundation.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #28
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Hey Ace, you do that and tell me how much wax you get, OK?

    Crazy Roland

  10. #29
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Roland, I think you are missing my point. The boiling process is used to get the wax, honey, spores off of the plastic so you can dispose of it. You are also going to dispose the honey wax and wood too. The golden rule is burn if you have a AFB infection. Someone asked, maybe you, what to do with plastic foundation because burning that would be toxic. If there are no signs of AFB then you don't have to do anything.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #30
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by WBVC View Post
    Aren't we taking a risk each time we purchase nucs? It seems the frames they come on are a mish mash of aged equipment.
    IMO you as much if not more at more risk buying a package. Most packages are mass produced in bee factories that treat with antibiotics that only suppress disease. Most Nucs come from smaller apiaries, often made from one hive and given time to grow.

    It happens to a lot of new beek. How many times do you read on bee source, "my new package died...slow start, spotty brood, never built up for fall..." There is no way to know if your package is infected.

    From http://triscience.com/

    Transmission of European foul brood disease by package bees
    In April 1964, 15 1-kg. packages of honeybees shaken from colonies infected with European foul brood and 15 1-kg. packages shaken from non-infected colonies were transported 1300 km, and installed in sterile equipment with new frames and foundation. All colonies derived from infected colonies developed E.F.B., whereas all those derived from non-infected colonies remained healthy. The disease did not appear until 5 wks. after packages were hived, and therapeutics given as soon as packages are installed should prevent build-up of infection to a level that causes disease.

    Transmission of American foul brood by package bees
    In May, 1965, 9 1-kg packages of honeybees were shaken from healthy colonies (group A), and 7 from colonies infected with American foul brood (group B). They were then transported from southern British Columbia to Beaverlodge, Alberta, and installed in sterile equipment with new frames and foundation. Six weeks after installation the 8 colonies remaining from group A remained free of-Afb, but 4 of the 6 remaining in group B were infected. Rigid inspection of the colonies from which package bees are shaken is therefore recommended, together with preventive feeding on installation, in order to prevent the spread of Afb to disease-free areas.

  12. #31
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by fieldsofnaturalhoney View Post
    If you wouldn't use it in your own apiary, why would you warn someone else and try to sell it to them?
    +1

  13. #32
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Flowerplanter, all used equipment is contaminated with something. Often, it may take years before there is a problem. All used equipment, even if no symptoms where expressed, should be sold with a "It may be contaminated". I have no intentions of every buying any used equipment again, and have no intentions of selling any I have. I was merely advising the person with the used equipment to peddle it to an informed, but less discriminating person.

    Crazy Roland

  14. #33
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    all used equipment is contaminated with something.
    You can say that about new equipment and even used equipment that came out of a sterilizer and place outside. Use equipment typically has some resources the bees can take advantage of. Old, decrepit equipment is another story.
    Last edited by Acebird; 03-26-2014 at 01:42 PM.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #34
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    What causes that length of a delay? Is it embedded spores that are released over time?
    I've never had to deal with it, but I always assumed that it caused a fairly rapid decline.
    All the right conditions have to come together. Bees have to feed the right amount of spores to the right age honeybee larvae. AFB doesn't really spread as quickly as one might assume. You can have a heavily infected hive in an apiary and as long as bees don't rob it or the beekeeper doesn't move infected equipment onto uninfected hives AFB doesn't spread as fast as the common cold or flu through a family or elementary school class.
    Mark Berninghausen

  16. #35
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    As for getting rid of old plastic, I imagine it would be possible to send off any components for recycling after they are cleaned up. Many facilities now accept a wide variety of plastic types (1-7) so the absence of a recycling code on the materials shouldn't make a difference.
    Pete. New 2013, 12 hives, zone 6a
    To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    This was a concern for NYS Apiary Inspection. What to do w/ AFB on plastic foundation or in styrafoam supers, being as burning would not be environmentally responsible. Deep burial was the solution.

    In one case, having nothing to do w/ plastic, we had a beekeeper w/ 75 hives riddled w/AFB. Burning all of that equipment was quite impractical. Turns outr the local landfill was scheduled to be closed real soon, so we transported all of those hives to the landfill, after killing the bees, where they were buried.
    Mark Berninghausen

  18. #37
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Wow so some would sell this to someone even if infected? That explains why the beekeeping industry for a buyer can suck. So many people more concerned about money over quality pathetic.

    If you wouldn't burn plastic frames because of air pollution then don't ever buy them. That goes for everyone. If you wouldn't burn it why would you buy it to one day dispose of in a landfill. Shoot it causes pollution to make as well.

    One of the things I love about bees it they can be a very low impact (chemically) business.

    When in doubt burn AFB. If you get it you are risking yourself and any beekeeper around you. Just think if you had one hive die and a commercial guy was down the road and his bees robbed it out. You potentially really hurt someone else.

    You don't burn it out of fear. You burn it out of using your brain and respect for your bees and other beekeepers around you.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Reynolds View Post
    Wow so some would sell this to someone even if infected?
    Suspected infected That was one of my thoughts it post #20
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  20. #39
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Actually wasn't what was being discussed what would one do w/ equipment of unknown origin? Not knowingly infected?
    Mark Berninghausen

  21. #40
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    Default Re: What would you do with this equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Turns outr the local landfill was scheduled to be closed real soon, so we transported all of those hives to the landfill, after killing the bees, where they were buried.
    Who paid the expense?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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