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Thread: the "eco floor"

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    3,112

    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    interesting observations, have you tried to move the bottom bar up and inch or 2 or the floor down an inch or 2? ........GG
    I have not, GG.
    This is because I am just a practical dude and so take advantage of existing Lang stuff (going for the cheap/easy/quick ways).
    When retired and kids grow - will see.

    But here is another idea to chew on:
    1)we established how the swarms prefer 40-60 liter cavities the best;
    2)we also established how typical tree cavities are about 30cm/12" in diameter;
    3)do a calculation and you will see that an approximate cylinder with 30cm in diameter and 40-60 liters in volume will be about 50-60cm in height (60cm ~ 24").

    And so, it would be normal and natural and desirable(???) to build vertically uninterrupted combs starting at the static upper base and downwards somewhere in 50-60cm range .
    It maybe after doing this for ~30-40M years, the bee memory has been wired in and is very strong (for the forest populations; the savanna/mountain populations could evolve differently).
    My setup is probably approaching the "desirable" span of a forest bee, and that what is going on.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    I have not, GG....
    Added:
    I only shoot for 2-4 inches of space under already tall frames - not particularly picky to be precise;
    current bottom bars (if I have them at all - not always do - seem to suggest where the "floor" is).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Will do the next time - the floor is FULL of trash they pulled out of the meshed walls (that I am testing) and dumped on the floor.

    But the trash will be right there, on the floor, next time I will look into it in 2-3 weeks.
    Will take a photo and hang right here to show you.
    OK, since I promised, got few pics yesterday afternoon (while splitting and such).

    As projected - the trash is still right there, on the floor, and no one cares much to pull it out of the hive.
    I could not even see the floor anymore - fully covered wood shavings and trash.
    They have been more than a month in this wood-shaving stuffed hive to make it shiny clean inside and out, if it really mattered.
    There were plenty of no-flight days to do nothing but house cleaning.
    The workforce was a plenty (well, less so now due to the splitting off).
    The lowest entrances in this 12-frame Layens hive are about 3 inches above the solid floor - should not prevent the material moves out, if it really matters.

    So I conclude - bees in this particular hive are comfortable enough as-is, to be concerned about the floor sweeping.
    The floor in this instance is just the same as the bottom in a large enough tree hollow - bees don't clean them (it is a trash pit).

    20190516_151016.jpg
    20190516_152110.jpg
    20190516_152137.jpg

    The most radical example of the "bottom-the-trash pit" I have seen was during this cut-out.
    The bottom in this "cavity" is about 3-4 meters down below.
    No one ever cleaned that one.
    20160813_113225_2.jpg
    20160813_132615_2.jpg
    Last edited by GregV; 05-17-2019 at 10:30 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  5. #64

    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Did you use foundation for those combs? Were there other combs with foundation beside those combs?

    Looks like adulterated/contaminated wax to me.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    610

    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by BernhardHeuvel View Post
    Did you use foundation for those combs? Were there other combs with foundation beside those combs?

    Looks like adulterated/contaminated wax to me.
    What do you see that looks "adulterated" or "contaminated" ?

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
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    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    What do you see that looks "adulterated" or "contaminated" ?
    I was going to ask exactly the same question - what is it that's causing suspicion ? But I've just found out ...

    Have a look over in the Commercial sub-forum. Bernhard has posted there about contaminated wax - which is really bad news. One possible giveaway is that it can be cloudy. Guess that's the factor here.

    But - I'm pretty sure Greg is 100% foundationless. I'm sure he'll be along soon to confirm (or not ?).
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  8. #67
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    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    But - I'm pretty sure Greg is 100% foundationless. I'm sure he'll be along soon to confirm (or not ?).
    LJ
    100% foundation-less in the brood-nest.

    PS: clarification - recently I scavenged for next to nothing lots and lots of foundation-based frames, fully drawn;
    I will use them in the honey supers only - trying capture some honey crop
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Dalton, Ga. USA
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    9

    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    I jumped into the eco floor idea and tried using peat moss and I won't be doing that again. The wax moths absolutely thrive in it. So now I have to come up with some way to raise the bottom in a hive that has bees in it. Thinking about some slatted rack modules of sorts, maybe sections of them about 4 or 5 frames wide and set out 4 or frames at a time to put em in place. I did have enough sense to put hinges on the bottom so at least I can do a good cleaning later which I already did when I dumped the peat moss.

  10. #69
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    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: the "eco floor"

    If I get to this project (seems doubtful - got bigger fish to fry), I may just do some rough wood shavings and bark chunks and so it will be a pass-through filter of sort.
    Bees will be able to get inside this floor as they see fit (just like with my "eco-walls").

    I did a kind of "eco-floors" in a couple of my trap hives already - the floor-less design (just wire screen) - did not produce any swarms into the second season now.
    So now I plugged the trap bottoms with well-used burlaps folded several times (give off smell to).

    As far as raising that floor UP, I would leave it as is and not worry anymore (after scooping the moss out).
    Under-frame space is good.

    As far as wax moths - they don't eat the combs covered by the bees and a non-issue (also a non-issue after the warm season).
    Yes - they may look concerning and intimidating.
    But they don't eat bees and they don't eat combs guarded by the bees.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #70
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    6,795

    Default

    I rescued (paid job, of course) this colony in an oak tree this winter and mounted it on a pallet. These survivors have expanded so much that they have excavated thru their EcoFloor material and pushed it out the bottom and added that as an entrance. See picture if EcoFloor material attached.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    All of my opinions and suggestions are based on my five decades of actual beekeeping,
    not so much on book learning, watching YouTube videos nor reading internet sites.

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