Requeening package bees - Page 6
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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Hamilton, Alabama
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    2,998

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    What is this--free potshot at Lauri day?
    I decided to go back to this comment because it deserves a counter. If someone said to go east from Jasper on hwy 78 about 40 miles and you would be in Mississippi, would you look at them funny? Would you ask them if they know what they are talking about? East on hwy 78 puts you in Birmingham which is the opposite direction of Mississippi. So I am not taking potshots at Laurie. I'm stating that something has been posted that is wrong. The reason I posted is because way too many beginning beekeepers will read what is posted here and will think what they read is correct. You CAN go east from Jasper and get to Mississippi... in about 24,000 miles when you finally get all the way around the world. Wouldn't it be simpler if someone just said "go West".


    I woud like to see the list of criteria you posted previous to that applied to all queen producers. I wonder how well they would measure up. I am not sure much of what is on your list is any more actually current fact than the idea that queens produced 20 years ago are relevant. You may not be aware of this. but the nature of beekeeping has changed just a bit in the last 20 years. I do wonder how those outstanding buckfast queens would measure up today? Oh yeah they didn't make it this far. maybe they did not have what it takes to live in the world the queens of today live in. So much for 70 years of breeding. tell me again why that is such an important requirement for selling queens.
    Most queens produced in the U.S. today are modestly improved, and I am being very kind with that statement. They are nowhere near what they could be if we had a consistent approach to bee breeding. Re Buckfast bees, they were highly tolerant to tracheal mites but totally susceptible to varroa. They are not a significant force in the world of beekeeping here in the U.S. except that some remnant populations are still around.

    Now I get to whack your caustic comment. "tell me again why that is such an important requirement for selling queens." It is important because even moderate amounts of selection applied over a period of years will significantly improve performance of a given strain of bees. Killion proved this by selecting a superb comb honey producing bee. Hastings proved this by selecting a superb strain of Carniolan for Canadian conditions. Brother Adam proved this in spades with Buckfast bees. What about Minnesota hygienics? or New World Carniolans? or the VSH lines that Harbo has been working on so many years? It is important because beekeeping can be significantly easier and more productive just because someone took time to choose the genetics they are breeding from. You are welcome to buy all the "local" queens you like for any price you choose to pay. I choose to put my time, money, and energy into bees that make honey for less of my time and money.

    Figure this one out: Cheap queens can be expensive, expensive queens can be cheap, and queens that produce the most honey are cheap for the price.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

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  3. #102
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,530

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion_power View Post
    I decided to go back to this comment because it deserves a counter. If someone said to go east from Jasper on hwy 78 about 40 miles and you would be in Mississippi, would you look at them funny? Would you ask them if they know what they are talking about? East on hwy 78 puts you in Birmingham which is the opposite direction of Mississippi. So I am not taking potshots at Laurie. I'm stating that something has been posted that is wrong. The reason I posted is because way too many beginning beekeepers will read what is posted here and will think what they read is correct. You CAN go east from Jasper and get to Mississippi... in about 24,000 miles when you finally get all the way around the world. Wouldn't it be simpler if someone just said "go West".
    Lauri posted her opinion based on her experience. You posted your opinion based on your experience. What makes your opinion anything more than just another opinion? The fact that it's yours?

    I am sorry to break it to you but Alabama is not Washington. Your opinion of what works in Washington is no more valid than someone from Washington having an opinion of what works in Alabama. Different conditions apply. Heck, I moved up from Florida and I am having to unlearn much of what I once considered to be normal good beekeeping practice because it just doesn't work up here. (And I killed a perfectly good Pol-Line queen in the process!)

    You are certainly entitled to your opinions. But they are STILL just OPINIONS. Just like Lauri's. Or mine. Or anybody else who posts here. ALL beekeeping is still regional.

    (And I also think all bees enjoy making liars and fools out of us--but that's another post entirely!)

    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper and Rusty's Bees.

  4. #103
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,977

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Hills Farm View Post

    You are certainly entitled to your opinions. But they are STILL just OPINIONS. Just like Lauri's. Or mine. Or anybody else who posts here. ALL beekeeping is still regional.


    Rusty
    ehem.... My opinions are fact.

    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  5. #104
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    2,998

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    Lauri posted her opinion based on her experience. You posted your opinion based on your experience. What makes your opinion anything more than just another opinion? The fact that it's yours?

    I am sorry to break it to you but Alabama is not Washington. Your opinion of what works in Washington is no more valid than someone from Washington having an opinion of what works in Alabama.
    Except... that I have lived in Washington, Kent area to be exact.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  6. #105
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,530

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    And I have lived and kept bees in Colorado--20 years ago. So my opinions about high country beekeeping are hardly valid today, which is why I don't offer them.


    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper and Rusty's Bees.

  7. #106
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    2,998

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    Please give me a lesson in quarter horse genetics. How do you improve your quarter horses? What makes your stud better than most? Maybe some local horses should breed with your quarter horses. It would produce the local horse equivalent of local bees. You would be improving the local horse genetics. Shetland ponies would get bigger and faster. A couple of race horse owners might not be too happy with the infusion of quarter horse genetics in their thoroughbred mares.

    Just laugh and go on. It is a disagreement that has no end and no winner.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  8. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, Florida
    Posts
    1,253

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    This isn't a very good analogy. Horses in that context are not wild animals over which the owner has minimal control, as bees are. A better analogy would be if he were breeding horses to survive on their own. Then crossbreeding with wild horses might be very useful.
    Ray--1 year, 7 hives, TF

  9. #108
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,977

    Default Re: Requeening package bees

    Not to start another old horse over, but Honey Bees are not wild animals either, they are domestic livestock which, like horses, are able to go feral.

    Bee genetics are far more complicated then breeding better horses... A horse breeder can select a great mare, cross breed it with a great stud and get great offspring.. Bee breeders often select from a certain queen, graft daughters who may only be half sisters to each other with unknown fathers, then open mate with unknown bee husbands. Bee breeding is more like throwing the dice at a crap table then it is like horse breeding.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

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