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  1. #61
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    Feb 2012
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    Athens, Georgia, USA
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    279

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    >> use a battery operated tool as a platform and ...

    Keep in mind that a typical commercial vaporizer (and many of the homemade ones using glow plugs) are approximately 150 watts. At 12 volts that is about 13 amps. At 18 volts that is 8.4 amps. Your tool battery will need to be capable of delivering that load for the length your heater "on" time. That may be a challenge for a typical tool battery.
    Rader, thanks. This is the kind of data I need. I own a dewalt 20v drill with a 5ah battery so, if the process takes 5 minutes, I might be able to do a half dozen hives per battery/charge.

    More data: I'm also looking at something called a PTC heating element that shuts itself off at a specific temperature by resistance. If I could mount a cup to that...

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Pensacola FL
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    1

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Glen, constructed as per your directions and immediately burn the heater out. Used a AC heater which apparently was required to be submerged. How did you get around the submerge requirement. Your example was a DC heater but I would not expect that to make the diff.?? Please advise. Thanks B.B.

  4. #63
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    Feb 2012
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    Essex IA USA
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    107

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    I got a little excited when I saw the 12 volt car/travel coffee cup heater with 3/4" copper pipe cap. But after I got the parts I realized it's too big for my hives. My entrances are 3/8". Same for the bee space below the frames. The heater coils are 3/4" tall and the copper cap is 15/16" tall.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    United States
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    5

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    An easy to make pan/heat transfer unit for the glow plug, can be made out of a 3/4 inch copper pipe cap and 3/8 copper tubing. The tubing is flattened starting at one end until you have enough to start wrapping it around the pipe cap. keep flattening
    and wrapping until it goes 3/4 of the way around. Do not get ahead of yourself and flatten to much. Using a socket the same size as the cap to form against helps. You should end up with a press fit for the cap with round tubing sticking out. cut the remainder off with just enough off left to insert the glow plug you need to tap the copper ever so slightly to get a tighter fit for the plug. after this has been used a while the copper gets soft then you can tighten it more with pliers. The 3/4 inch cap can be cut down to height with a tubing cutter. Cost new, 2 dollars or less and works very well, and seems to match the times in the posts as far as vaporizing. The only problem may be height, mine finished out at about 5/8 inch which works for me on most of mine, but i just tilt the others back to slide it in. it helps to keep the frame bottoms scraped too.

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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    15

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    This following video is the best example of a DIY OA vaporizer. I wish the maker had provided details about the construction and a schematic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7SSPU4dlBo

  7. #66
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    May 2011
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    4,746

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    I notice that the molten oxalic acid is overflowing slightly: The volume of the tray is marginal. Some of the proposed models are even smaller in tray volume. Some people who are treating for more hive space than a double deep would do well to consider enlarging the tray. Making it deeper rather than a larger footprint creates the problem of difficulty inserting in a standard entrance and more prone to scorching frame bottoms and wax dripping into pan.
    Frank

  8. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Springdale, Arkansas
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    334

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    I did in this post:

    https://www.beesource.com/forums/show...acid+vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmckeag View Post
    This following video is the best example of a DIY OA vaporizer. I wish the maker had provided details about the construction and a schematic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7SSPU4dlBo

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    3,794

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    I notice that the molten oxalic acid is overflowing slightly: The volume of the tray is marginal. Some of the proposed models are even smaller in tray volume. Some people who are treating for more hive space than a double deep would do well to consider enlarging the tray. Making it deeper rather than a larger footprint creates the problem of difficulty inserting in a standard entrance and more prone to scorching frame bottoms and wax dripping into pan.
    It looks to me like there is far more OA in that tray than you would ever use in a hive. most likely for video purposes. Second that is an example of the OA crystallizing on any surface it contacts yet it was reheated and did eventually vaporize. I suspect that is due largely to the wind blowing it around. which would not be the case in a hive. Still the OA was vaporized. This issue is a matter of method not one of results. The OA can vaporize off the bees wings if that is what gets it vaporized. seems this design not only vaporizes the OA it also addresses the additional issues of cool surfaces where it is not wanted to remain. Seems a bit overkill in some regards.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by desotohemi55 View Post
    An easy to make pan/heat transfer unit for the glow plug, can be made out of a 3/4 inch copper pipe cap and 3/8 copper tubing. The tubing is flattened starting at one end until you have enough to start wrapping it around the pipe cap. keep flattening
    and wrapping until it goes 3/4 of the way around. Do not get ahead of yourself and flatten to much. Using a socket the same size as the cap to form against helps. You should end up with a press fit for the cap with round tubing sticking out. cut the remainder off with just enough off left to insert the glow plug you need to tap the copper ever so slightly to get a tighter fit for the plug. after this has been used a while the copper gets soft then you can tighten it more with pliers. The 3/4 inch cap can be cut down to height with a tubing cutter. Cost new, 2 dollars or less and works very well, and seems to match the times in the posts as far as vaporizing. The only problem may be height, mine finished out at about 5/8 inch which works for me on most of mine, but i just tilt the others back to slide it in. it helps to keep the frame bottoms scraped too.
    This is a pretty good idea. Can you offer any ideas as to creating a handle? By wrapping the 3/8" tubing around the cap, the holder for the glow plug is created. A hole could be drilled into the cap and a bolt or screw inserted. The threads would run parallel to the 3/8" glow plug holder beside it. A nut threaded down against the outside of the cap would keep it tight and secure. The threads could be screwed/threaded into the end of a shaft to create an long handle.
    Last edited by johnmckeag; 05-21-2015 at 03:33 PM.

  11. #70
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    Oct 2013
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    United States
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    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    hold on you are getting to complicated i will send pics and descriptions
    asap

  12. #71
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    Dec 2013
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    Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeAttitudes View Post
    Can you please tell me more about the bi-metal thermostat that you have incorporated into the circuit? I think it is a good idea. I called around to different electronics suppliers and learned that these aren't very accurate, sometimes varying 20F - so a desired 350F open may then open at 370F to break the circuit or it could be 20 degrees lower, 330F. I see that there are 12 VDC digital temp controllers on ebay for roughly $12, could this be another approach, in your opinion?
    On another note, I see that JB Weld is capable of withstanding 500F. If you drilled a hole on the side of a 2" copper pipe cap and slid in a 1/4" copper tube to lay along the flat bottom of the cap and then cover it with JB Weld to act as a heat sink, essentially embeding the copper tube holding the 60G glow plug hot end under the JB Weld. The whole point is my trying to make a vaporizer without the need for machining. Your thoughts please?

  13. #72
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    Dec 2014
    Location
    Springdale, Arkansas
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    334

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    The bi-metal disks do have some temp variation. The one I used worked out just right so I have no complaints.

    Based on what I've seen, I don't believe OA sublimates (at least not at atmospheric pressure). It goes from powder to liquid then boils off. The temp won't rise above the boiling temp of liquid OA till all the OA liquid has boiled off. So I don't see the need for a temperature controller. A few reasons to use a temperature sensitive device to cut-off power to the heating element are:

    1) To prevent the temp climbing excessively after the OA has boiled off. This could possibly prevent melting wax from the frames.

    2) You don't have to time each treatment precisely to prevent overheating. It's much easier to treat multiple hives concurrently if you don't have to time each treatment and monitor closely to ensure the heating element doesn't overheat.

    3) If you wire a light to the output side of the device that is supplying power to the heating element, you can visually see when the treatment is finished. Without a light to let you know the treatment is over, then you are back to using a timer to know when the treatment is over.

    As for JB Weld, I don't know the heat transfer properties of cured JB Weld so can't speculate if it would be a good medium for transferring heat. For all I know, it may be a heat insulator (no idea).

    It wasn't easy, but I made my device on a drill press. Drilled holes throughout the cavity as close as possible then used an end mill bit using an up/down motion as if drilling to remove essentially all the material. Finally, I clamped angle iron to the drill base, lowered the end mill bit to the bottom of the cavity (had a stop set so I wouldn't go too low), and slid the aluminum block along the sides of the angle iron to clean up the sides of the trough. I hope that makes sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by johnmckeag View Post
    Can you please tell me more about the bi-metal thermostat that you have incorporated into the circuit? I think it is a good idea. I called around to different electronics suppliers and learned that these aren't very accurate, sometimes varying 20F - so a desired 350F open may then open at 370F to break the circuit or it could be 20 degrees lower, 330F. I see that there are 12 VDC digital temp controllers on ebay for roughly $12, could this be another approach, in your opinion?
    On another note, I see that JB Weld is capable of withstanding 500F. If you drilled a hole on the side of a 2" copper pipe cap and slid in a 1/4" copper tube to lay along the flat bottom of the cap and then cover it with JB Weld to act as a heat sink, essentially embeding the copper tube holding the 60G glow plug hot end under the JB Weld. The whole point is my trying to make a vaporizer without the need for machining. Your thoughts please?

  14. #73
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Kingsport Tn
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    45

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    What gauge wire do you use with the glow plug?

  15. #74
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,794

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by tnfiddler View Post
    What gauge wire do you use with the glow plug?
    I used 14 gauge solid on time. it got so hot it left burn marks on the side of my hive. 12 gauge stranded does not have the same problem. you can also get 12 gauge or larger wire for hot applications. The sort of wire used in ovens etc. I would suggest 10 gauge or larger.
    14 gauge for up to 15 amps
    12 gauge for up to 20 amps
    10 gauge for up to 30 amps.
    I (amps) = V (volts) divided by R (resistance) you know volts are 12 if you use a 12 volt battery. R can be measures with an ohm meter. I Think you will find the amps are huge on these things. amps produce heat.
    Everything gets darker, as it goes to where there is less light. Darrel Tank (5PM drawing instructor)

  16. #75
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    May 2014
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    Kingsport Tn
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    45

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Thank you Daniel

  17. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sonoma County, Ca, USA
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    457

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Well, I've only had bees for a couple of weeks so far but I figure I better get myself prepared for battle with mites sooner or later. So I built myself a OA vaporizer.

    The glow plug is a Bosch F002 650 003. I have *no* idea what it fits or why it was in my junk box but it appeared just like magic when I was looking for other useful hardware for the vaporizer. It's rather longer than I would have liked, but I figured I'd already witnessed a miracle finding this one in my junk pile so I didn't complain.

    The handle is from a busted bbq tool and all the aluminum bits were just laying around looking for something to do.
    I put the glow plug in the center with a OA tray cut on each side of it. It holds 3 grams easily enough and it starts to bubble and smoke at about 90 seconds and takes about 4 minutes to fully cook off a 3 gram load.

    It's fully functional now but I will add some timer electronics to shut it off after a fixed amount of time and probably will add a low battery indicator also.







    Last edited by BeeBop; 06-02-2015 at 04:21 PM. Reason: one more photo...

  18. #77
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    May 2014
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    Kingsport Tn
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    45

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Does the heater end of the plug need to make contact with the aluminum block

  19. #78
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    Apr 2015
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    Sonoma County, Ca, USA
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    457

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Yes, the heater should be in good thermal contact with the block. Mine has 2 set screws in the bottom that clamp the heater in place.

  20. #79
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    May 2014
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    Kingsport Tn
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    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Mine threads in, so there is good contact there, but the element is not touching. I guess that's why its not getting hot

  21. #80
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    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sonoma County, Ca, USA
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    457

    Default Re: Homemade oxalic acid vaporizer

    Yeah, the element needs to be in good contact not just the threaded part.
    I drilled the hole for the element only very slightly larger than the element itself and put some thermal transfer grease down in the hole before I shoved the element in and clamped it in with two 8-32 set screws.

    Here's the bottom view with the set screws. Ignore the one in the upper corner. Unimplemented feature...


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