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Added my second Deep, so now what?

4K views 24 replies 10 participants last post by  ChasWG 
#1 ·
As the title says, I added the next 8 frames to my second deep because they are fully filling out frames 2 thru 7 and have started in on frame 1. Frame 8 hasn't been touched yet. So I moved the 1 gallon feed jar up on top of the inner cover with two medium supers as the feed station surrounding the jar. No frames in the supers, just a covered feed station. I popped the top cover off later this evening and noticed that very few bees have found the feed jar partially covering the oval hole of the inner cover. How long does it take them to rediscover the feed station? Are they totally freaked out and discombobulated with the addition of the new frames? I'm sure they will get to it eventually, I was just wondering if messing with the hive like this is similar to moving the hive more than a few feet? I've basically given them twice the room they had before. It was starting to get pretty packed in there and I didn't want them to swarm. Time for some expansion and building up of the colony! I'm at 4.5 weeks into hiving the package. Is there anything else I need to be watching for now?
 
#3 ·
Well Gino, thank you for your opinion, but do you know what this Spring has been like this year here in Colorado? I see you are from Hawaii, maybe your spring is a bit different than ours. Its been an odd time for us.

Many of the fruit trees and early Spring blooming shrubs and flowers all got frozen and destroyed. All my apple trees are done for yet another year with no hope of any fruit, no cherry blooms, lilacs all gone and not a single tulip bloomed. So forage for these first year bees isn't as good as it should be at this point. We are in a drought and are only allowed to water twice a week. So I believe I will continue to offer the sugar syrup at this time.

The next wave of flowers are just getting ready to bloom. I have irises that should have already opened at this point, but they were slowed down by the cold spring weather. They will open by this weekend. And bachelor buttons will begin to open in the next couple days if the warm weather holds.

Again, thanks for your opinion, but you neither answered any of my questions nor did you offer any real help from your Pacific Ocean island.
 
#4 ·
Sorry for you misfortune. When I replied I was remembering the beautiful sunny days I spent just east of the Colorado rockies, which, as I recall, began about May 15. I also recall the abundant wildflowers which I observed there.
Also, the bees not going for it implied to me that they didn't need to be fed.
So peace be with you and good luck with your bees. And I hope you get some good rains soon!
 
#5 ·
I haven't fed the bees anything this year other than the honey left in hives from prior year and I live in western Colorado where we suffered through a 6 week winter inversion without the temps getting above freezing during the day and below zero at night. Did you perform a checkerboard when you added the second deep? Sit back and observe for next month to see if you're ready to add a honey super. it's doubtful with first year bees but I've seen it happen more than once. I have had 3 splits already this year and 13 hives strong coming out of a winter that took half my hives.
 
#6 ·
When placed over a new box of empty frames I find the bees take a couple of days to find the feed jar. They seem reluctant to go through that new space. Move a couple of fraems from the lower box up and they will take to the new one better.
 
#7 ·
Gino, sorry to be such a pill. Yeah it's been a weird Spring here. The wild flowers up in the mountains I'm sure will be behind as well. They got a huge dump of late snow as well. Good for water stores, bad for flowers and bees.

Stickybear, I'm sorry, what's a "checkerboard?" The honey supers are just there to cover the feed jar. There are no frames in them at this time, just the 1 gallon jar so that it's inside the hive and not exposed to robbers. I totally understand that I may not get any honey this year myself and I'm OK with that. Just trying to learn and understand how to be a better beekeeper.

It was that last Spring snow storm that did in the buds on a lot of the trees and shrubs. It was in the 80's right before that so many of the trees were getting ready to pop their buds, only to get them frozen off. Now it's getting hotter here and the Spring tornado season is here. I am very afraid of the wild weather we can get here on the plains. A few years back we had a tornado, on the ground and within a few miles of my house. Scary stuff. While a direct hit would be a total loss, even the wild winds around a tornado are enough to topple hives I image. I've been working on systems to keep the hives in place just in case.

Daniel, thank you for that idea. I'll try that with some of the outer frames. Should I replace the frames into the same position that it had in the lower box, just up one level or move it toward the center more to encourage them to start there?
 
#9 ·
Ah! Thank you for that. I will do it. How jacked up will the bees be after all that? My guess is they will pretty pissed off and so I'll just leave them alone for a long while.

Thanks for the info!
 
#11 ·
The bees shouldn't bee too upset by your checker boarding. I just pulled apart 4 boxes of an over populated hive looking for the queen (2nd last frame in the bottom box) and had no reaction from the girls at all. Other hives may not be so patient with me though. Hope they will be calm, be prepared for them to be pissy.
 
#12 ·
so I did the checker Boarding as suggested by a couple folks. They weren't too irritated with me. Didn't find the queen this time around, but I did find one frame that was almost entirely packed with worker brood! Holy Cow has the queen been busy on that frame. I was in a rush to get this checker boarding done without too much messing around or I would have taken a picture of that frame. Amazing work there! Only the uper left and right corners had a bit of pollen and honey, almost every other cell was capped for workers. A super tight pattern.

So once I was done putting the hive back together I noticed almost immediately that they were using the small upper vent hole entrance/exit again. Whereas before the checkerboarding they almost completely ignored it. While I was taking the upper deep off I did find a small group of adventureous girls in the upper box before the checkering, but only two at the feed jar. I'll take the top cover off later tonight and see who's at the feed jar.

Yes the girls are bringing in pollen and I suppose nectar as well. I have one nieghbor that doesn't like to do much about his dandelions. OK with me as my bees seem to love that stuff, but I really don't want them in my yard. Oh well. The bees are bringing in an orange and yellow pollen right now. so hopefully soon they wil be bringing in enough to start slowing down on the jar and gathering the good stuff.
 
#15 ·
Oh no, my attitude toward dandelions won't change. They are fine in my nieghbor's yard, but not mine. I was a gardener before I was a beekeeper. Somethings just won't change. But I will be seeking out other prolific, early season bloomers. I have some open spots in my garden to fill. And the plant I'm thinking of blooms earlier than even the dandelions do.

Eddie, yeah we do have clover here in Colorado. I don't care for it in my grass. But I do have some special versions growning and they are in bloom. Though the bees don't seem to have discovered it. It has a red flower and is beautiful.

Flower Flowering plant Plant prince of wales feathers Wildflower


I find it funny that there are some plants blooming in my yard (more coming soon), but the bees haven't seemed to have found them. I have a cluster of Wall flower that I have seen bees on it in the past, but mine haven't gotten to it yet. Wall flower starts blooming now and continues throughout the Summer and Fall. I'm sure they'll get to it.

Its just been such a crazy Spring and so many of my plants are right on the verge of opening up. Just a couple more days of warm sun and mid 70's to 80's will do it.
 
#16 ·
Oh no, my attitude toward dandelions won't change. They are fine in my nieghbor's yard, but not mine. I was a gardener before I was a beekeeper. Somethings just won't change. But I will be seeking out other prolific, early season bloomers. I have some open spots in my garden to fill. And the plant I'm thinking of blooms earlier than even the dandelions do.

Eddie, yeah we do have clover here in Colorado. I don't care for it in my grass. But I do have some special versions growning and they are in bloom. Though the bees don't seem to have discovered it. It has a red flower and is beautiful.

View attachment 6122

I find it funny that there are some plants blooming in my yard (more coming soon), but the bees haven't seemed to have found them. I have a cluster of Wall flower that I have seen bees on it in the past, but mine haven't gotten to it yet. Wall flower starts blooming now and continues throughout the Summer and Fall. I'm sure they'll get to it.

Its just been such a crazy Spring and so many of my plants are right on the verge of opening up. Just a couple more days of warm sun and mid 70's to 80's will do it.
ive heard that red clover is too deep for the girls to get into.
 
#17 ·
for what it's worth, i'm an hour north of you. i installed my one and only package 4 weeks ago today. i added the 2nd deep sunday night and along with the second deep took two frames 2&9 (pollen and honey and absolutely covered in bees) from the lower deep and moved them to the center up top. i then placed a frame of already drawn comb on either side of of those frames. next day there were a few bees milling around up top. next day a few more. next day a few more. then last night there were 4 frames fully covered in bees and a few bees on other frames with the bottom deep chocked FULL of bees.

they've kind of started to ignore the baggie feeders i have on top of the 2nd deep. there's so much blooming around us right now that they seem to prefer the natural stuff over sugar syrup. fine by me.

anyway give it time. they'll get up there. at least mine did, and i'm sure yours will too.
 
#19 ·
why did you checkerboard???
Makes no sense..... you broke up the brood nest right when they were going well...... 95% of the time you don't want to break up the broodnest... its sets them back. In this case if I read correctly they were just starting to roll. I didn't see anything about swarm cells... swarm prevention on a second year hive is another story....

Its too late now. but be careful following all the "tips" in your case I would have moved frames 1 and 10 in one space and added that 2nd deep and leave them to it. It will take them about 3-4 weeks to fill out that second deep at the least... generaly 5-6 weeks. Don't break up the broodnest area unless you have a reason. the bees are trying hard to control the temp and humidity in that nursery.... a coll spring as all the more reason not to mess that up by spreading brood all around. it makes it harder for them to control temp, and you can get a lot of chilled brood.
 
#21 ·
Well, it's hard to know what to do as a new beek. Where was this "tip" a few days ago? I see your point and as you say, too late now. But it's not a 10 frame hive, but an 8 frame. Frame 1 was just starting to be drawn and loaded with stuff, frame 8 hasn't been touched yet. So it was only one of the brood frames that really got moved up. Hopefully I haven't caused too much "damage" and they will be fine. Again, lots of coming and going from the main entrance this morning.

Thanks for responding to this thread I learn from everyone here.
 
#20 ·
Good to know. I think the checkerboarding has worked out well. I took a look inside the top cover this morning and there was a lot of activity around the top of the second deep. At least from what I could see through that oval hole. Though I too am starting to thing they are less interested in the feeder. Some still hit it though.

I'm planning on leaving the hive alone for the next week to 10 days and just let them work their fool heads off. Then I'll check back in on them to see what progress they've made on those new frames.

As for forage, I'm just so shocked that so many of my flowers are so far behind. It rained again here last night and this morning is cool and breezy again. Love the rain, hate the cool temps as that will slow down the flower openings.
 
#22 ·
I breakup the brood nest and haven't seen any disruption in production, the brood nest isn't broken up if you see the hive as a 3-dimesional ball which is inflated by checker boarding, like putting air in to a balloon. This also allows the introduction of new frames during the process. Each bee keeper has his or hers own method and hopefully it works for others as well.
 
#23 ·
How would you know unless you can a comparision hive??? Breaking up the brood nest is great swarm control... but also can chill brood and cause heavy losses. ... I personaly never break the broodnest without a good reason. a first year package is very unlikely to swarm as long as space is added timely.
Tonight we are forcasted to hit 41 DEG.. I will loose brood in the 3 hives that are checker boarded....... While my packages that started March 28th are well into the second deeps.... hopefully it will stay warm and you have enough bees to cover all your brood.

Your right, we all have methods.......
 
#25 ·
The weather here in the Front Range (East side of the mountains) is slated to be in the low to mid 50's the rest of this week. If it drops too low I still throw in the board to cover the screened bottom board just to keep the temps more stable in the hive at night. Then pop it out again in the morning. This weekend it should get up to the mid 80's again. Hopefully that doesn't spin up any tornados...
 
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