Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA
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  1. #1
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    Default Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    This is disturbing.

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    http://www.pacc-news.com/5-2-12/heart_ingram5_2_12.html



    Heart of the Matter – Ingram Gets His Day In Court - Three Weeks Late

    By Tom Kocal | Prairie Advocate News

    APRIL 27, 2012, APPLE RIVER, IL – The little town of Apple River in northeast Jo Daviess County, Illinois is the hometown of a big man - Terrence Ingram. Though not big in a physical sense, when it comes to saving the American Bald Eagle, there is hardly anyone in the United States held in higher regard than Ingram. His years of documented research and expertise regarding eagles and the work of the Eagle Nature Foundation, founded by Ingram, is in great part responsible for the bald eagle being removed from the “Threatened Species List “ in the United States.

    Unfortunately, it was not his knowledge of eagles that the Illinois Department of Agriculture sought when they paid an unannounced visit to his home in March. It was his bees.

    In the March 21, 2012 issue, The Prairie Advocate published a news release from Ingram that reported the theft of $5000 of his bees and bee hives on March 14. Ingram said that before they left had left for their granddaughter’s wedding in Texas, the hives had been cleaned and made ready for new spring swarms.

    I received a phone call from an area County Farm Bureau manager about the article, asking how I had come across the information. He knew that the equipment was not stolen, but “destroyed” by the Illinois Department of Agriculture (IDofA). The hives were infected with foulbrood, and Ingram was doing nothing about it.

    It was not until during a hearing at the IDofA in Springfield on April 4th that Ingram found out who “the culprit” was. The hearing, held 3 weeks after the IDofA removed most of his bees and hives from his property, was to determine whether or not Ingram had American Foulbrood in his hives.
    There are 2 questions that Ingram wants answered:

    1) Did the IDofA, a state agency, have the right to enter Ingram’s property and confiscate a suspected “nuisance,” before Ingram had his day in court?
    2) Where are his bees? The “evidence” has disappeared, and the IDofA refuses to tell Ingram where they are, before, during, and after the hearing.

    “I have been keeping bees for 58 years,” Ingram said during an interview at his home and apiary. “I am not a newcomer to beekeeping, and I definitely know what I am doing. I have been teaching beginning beekeeping classes for 40 years. In fact, it was my recommendation to some of my students who wanted to keep getting together to form a club. Today, the Stateline Beekeepers Association is one of the largest in the state.”
    Last edited by Barry; 05-07-2012 at 02:02 PM.
    Regards, Barry

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    Welcome to the era of big government. The Tyranny of Bureaucrats.
    "...fascists divide themselves into two categories: fascists and antifascists" Ennio Flaiano

  4. #3
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    Arlee MT USA
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    And I thought the bee fortress was there just to keep out bears....now I think I see another use.

    If you want to read about even spookier actions look up some the stores about people trying to drink unpasteurized milk, you would think they where doing meth.

  5. #4
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    East Peoria, IL
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    http://www.pacc-news.com/5-2-12/heart_ingram5_2_12.html

    I'm not ready to say whether the state had the right to remove and destroy Mr. Ingram's hives but he had ample notice from lab results foulbrood was detected in his equipment.

    While it is true that foulbrood does not affect humans, it does affect bees. If he had a dead-out that was robbed he could easily spread (and appears he did) to the rest of his hives and also to feral bee populations.

    The Association I belong to does push hard on using treatments to keep bees alive and I seem to be at odds and butt heads with members that insist that I'll never be successful overwintering hives without an annual chemical bath for the bees.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    It is obvious from the owner of the bees that he does not understand foulbrood and the action of the state probably saved many nearby hives owned by others. a sample was tested positive by beltsville and this is only one side of the story.

  7. #6
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    Cookeville, TN, USA
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    No idea about what is going on in this particular case, but in TN we are required by law to register all of our hives (free to do) and if AFB is found anywhere the state inspects all known hives in the area - all infected hives are burned. Completely. And they pay you $50 per hive.

    However we have very low incidence of American Foul Brood. Personally I don't feel all that violated.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    Justified or no, the point is they seized property without a court order and without a hearing in court. Perhaps next time the shoe may be a little tighter.
    "...fascists divide themselves into two categories: fascists and antifascists" Ennio Flaiano

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    Quote Originally Posted by RiodeLobo View Post
    Justified or no, the point is they seized property without a court order and without a hearing in court. Perhaps next time the shoe may be a little tighter.
    They don't need a court order because of the state apiary act. He had months of advance warning to get a second opinion from a 3rd party and could have saved the queens and bought new woodware and package bees to maintain his genetics.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    What is the deal with roundup killing his bees?

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    a mention of big government was made. what is the difference compared to barry putting on the inspectors address without knowing all the facts. It was clear that the owner was notifed and later painted his hives to cover up the inspectors numbers.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    Just the idea of mandatory inspections creeps me out. I doubt I would even try to keep bee's under those conditions.

  13. #12
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    santa monica, ca
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    It seems very odd to me that the state transported those hives somewhere rather than destroying them at the site. Didn't they risk spreading the afb by moving them? Why would they do that on a Sunday rather than a normal business day? Why wouldn't they come to him and say we are doing this? Lots of unanswered questions.
    Buzz Abbott
    USDA zone 10b, Western Garden zone 24 (75 ft elev. n34.0w118.47)

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    Quote Originally Posted by beeware10 View Post
    what is the difference compared to barry putting on the inspectors address without knowing all the facts.
    Because that is the official address listed on the Department of Agriculture website.
    http://www.agr.state.il.us/programs/...nspectors.html

    The issue is not the legality of what they did. It is the intrusiveness of the law and bureaucracy.
    "...fascists divide themselves into two categories: fascists and antifascists" Ennio Flaiano

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    I think what is most troubling about this is that Mr. Ingram is an experienced beekeeper and the state seemed to go out of its way to do things behind his back. Much of the story (including the Beltsville tests) were not mentioned in the video. Here in Maine I believe I'd get at a personal communication from our state apiarist before any action would be taken. Of course if I was told "we inspected your hives, suspected foul brood and had our diagnosis confirmed by Beltsville" I'd be ready to light the match. I've always said that if I have a hive with AFB that I'd burn it. But if I didn't take any action, the state would be perfectly justified to act.

    The big difference from Mr. Ingram's case is he is calling into question the skills of the person who made the initial diagnosis and collected samples to send off for testing. Without reviewing the Illinois statutes it is impossible to know if one can make such a challenge. In Maine I'm grateful for the one inspector we have and I'm happy to work with him to see to my bee's health. Is he without his opinions? No, but he has earned the right to make those opinions based of his education and years in the field.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    some areas have laws against open burning. they were probably taken to an controlled enviroment. not sure but I think he said they may have been taken on sunday which I doubt. as I said this is only one side of the story. If these bees had been next to you Im sure you would like to see them gone. the inspection program is one of the few government programs that helps. they dont care about beekeepers as much as they try to maintain the bees. the facts are the bees had afb and the owner was not complying with the law.

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    I don't know, the video begs more questions than answers. Some innacuracy in symptoms.

    - IF the dept of ag inspected the hives there should be a paper trail, including lab results...
    - Was the owner notified?
    - of an inspection comming
    - of the inspection results
    - of the condemnation of the hives

    Smells of a bit of a power play by the dept of ag vs, a beek who has spoken against the "system"

    Neither side is right from what I see... and neither side is telling the whole story

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    just watching to video is not the whole story. read the newspaper arcticle. all of feltzes questions are answered.

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    There is almost always more to a story that what comes across in articles and videos. On first viewing, it does seem like some things may have been done incorrectly.
    Mark Berninghausen

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    "I tried to prove that just because foulbrood can be detected once the hive has been disturbed, doesn’t mean the hive has foulbrood."

    Is that true?

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Terrence Ingram - 11 Hives Destroyed by the IDofA

    I don't know what that statement means. Once AFB has been detected, that means it is there.
    Mark Berninghausen

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