Instrumental Insemination Equipment - Page 5
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  1. #81

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Check out some fine threaders for fishing. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...fo0&ajaxhist=0

    They're pretty fine, they're made to pass through the eye of small hooks, then you pass the leader through and pull it through to thread the eye. I'm betting it could catch the sting though and maybe hold it in place with just tension or slip a very small O-ring on and slide it forward to secure but you'd have to be very careful.
    That is exactly what I was thinking, a good material to use for this would be berillium bronze which has a nice springiness about it, I have used it for springs in my multi gateway porter type escapes, and if it was used in the vertical it could grab along the length of the sting.

    Another fine wire thread here

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silver-Thre...N%3DB00WJLBOSA

    Fine wires

    http://wireandstuff.co.uk/products/U...-0.1-0.2-.html

    https://www.pgmetalshop.com/platinum...wire-fine.html

    I'm going to be busy this week.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-20-2016 at 02:12 PM.

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  3. #82
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    5,456

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Now I'm wondering if some of my very small fly tying hooks could do the job with just the eye alone, there's also the C n F nail knot tool that might work as well by it self. Basically a fine needle with a hole in the tip to pull line through. How about a spring loaded sting hook with a counterweight to adjust the tension?? Actually with the spring, u don't even need a counterweight, just something to micro manipulate the stretch on the spring.

  4. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SOMERSET, ENGLAND
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Dave Cushman has some images and thoughts about using adapted insulin needles to make perforated sting hooks, don't know if much became of this idea though.

    http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/tubularhook.html

  5. #84
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,002

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Don't over think this... Forceps work great and you can use them to remove splinters too!
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  6. #85

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I think I will try using what they call in the modelling world as, plasticard, it comes in sheets of white PTFE based cards in varying thicknesses and can be cut using a scalpel, then you simply push a half millimetre sewing needle through/into it until you have the desired orifice, you could even heat the very tip of the needle and melt the hole, or use a bee sting itself maybe.

    I have 1.00mm thick card here and will have a go after lunch.

  7. #86

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Now I'm wondering if some of my very small fly tying hooks could do the job with just the eye alone, there's also the C n F nail knot tool that might work as well by it self. Basically a fine needle with a hole in the tip to pull line through. How about a spring loaded sting hook with a counterweight to adjust the tension?? Actually with the spring, u don't even need a counterweight, just something to micro manipulate the stretch on the spring.
    I have just taken my small fly tying vice to pieces and there you have a similar layout to the Schelly forceps with a cylinder cut down the middle and then reduced to create a waisted section that allows the tapered front half to act as a wedge when drawn from behind against a tube end.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-20-2016 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #87

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Here is my latest idea, I took a section of 3/16" solid round brass rod, cut a slot in it at the end to take a slither of plasticard 25 thou thick and pinned it through using a 1.00 mm brass rod, the card worked out exact using a junior hacksaw and the plastic sits nice and snug in the slot, then I shaped the end of the rod to please the eye and glued it into the opposite end of one of the pin chuck arms.

    https://s30.postimg.org/alejc8ny9/IMG_0110.jpg

    https://s27.postimg.org/hq9e9w003/IMG_0111.jpg

    The card is pretty stiff stuff and can be shaped due to it having no memory factor, so it will stay where you shape it and it cheap, the hole can be made easily and quickly with the point of a needle.

    https://s29.postimg.org/r5vp043wn/IMG_0109.jpg

    The ventral hook is made from a piece of silver rod which I ran one end through the jewellers mill to flatten it leaving the other end round to fit the pin chuck.

    https://s24.postimg.org/7br953s05/IMG_0112.jpg

    The card will flex slightly which might not be such a bad thing, as Sue in one of her video says novices like myself tend to push the sting downwards, but the plastic won't move that much due to its stiffness but will give a little.

    https://s24.postimg.org/nqrozko51/IMG_0113.jpg

    The card can be shaped and made to what ever size, length etc and shaped in seconds, it should work.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-20-2016 at 01:53 PM.

  9. #88

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Please could someone advise on the correct PH for saline for semen collection is this one correct?

    http://www.coloss.org/beebook/I/inst...semination/2/2

    Good place to get your glassware in the UK

    http://www.scientificglass.co.uk/con...Glass.html#p56
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-20-2016 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #89

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Whilst I was pondering as one does I remembered watching holes being made in metal sheet, what the old boys were doing, and this was in the day when I was very young and in town there were sparks coming from every other window in them days, people making things, lot of things all within walking distance.

    However, what I thought I would try was to heat the 1.00 Sterling silver rod after rolling it in the mill to half a millimetre, then I secured it to my soldering plate,via a mini vice to steady it, the plate was made from fine refractory cement, and while glowing cherry red, I pierced it using a fine sewing needle secured in a small metal drill chuck.

    Low and behold a fine hole was extant, it was a little small but on the next attempt a little bigger and useable.

    These things are sent to try us, and sometimes the old ways are better and quicker, as Plato once said, nothing is new under the sun.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-21-2016 at 01:22 PM.

  11. #90

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    A busy day in the shop, made this simple heating coil pipettes drop stand.

    Made from pieces of off cuts from another project, 18,00mm birch plywood, two 10.00mm silver steel bars I had spare and a small coil of Nichrome wire that I wrapped around an 8.00mm bolt, six turns, but might need to experiment a little to get the heat and timing right for each dia glass used, might have to make two coil mount boards and slide them on and off as needed.

    The hole in the coil board is 40.00mm, this is to fill with investment or plaster of Paris or similar to act as a heat shield and insulator, fill this flush and hold in place by a rear disc or similar.

    The weight is aluminium 50.00mm and 25.00mm diameter and has an 8.00mm hole drilled 3/4 of the way through then a 5.00 mm hole the rest of the way, this is guided by an 8.00mm post.

    The wire I salvaged from some old unused electric heat elements, dia of wire 1.00mm.

    The power supply can be either a battery charger or variac which I already have, but I have been told that a household light switch come reastat can be used and has variability.

    She took two hours to make costing a tenner all in.

    Thanks for looking.

    https://s29.postimg.org/h39xjtfyv/IMG_0115.jpg

    https://s28.postimg.org/npyc7eoz1/IMG_0114.jpg

    https://s30.postimg.org/ogd0gjr41/IMG_0116.jpg
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-21-2016 at 12:16 PM.

  12. #91

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Im not sure how much the Harbo system is, but here is the same pump for 170 quid, maybe buy this and make your own stand.

    https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/p/gilmo...dispensers/889

    And this simple version.

    http://www.hamiltoncompany.com/produ...old-Separately
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-21-2016 at 01:50 PM.

  13. #92
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Baden Wurtemburg Germany
    Posts
    560

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Just a quick post to say how much I am enjoying this thread and to encourage its continuation. Thank you Little boy blue.
    Stephen 40+ hives. 6th year. Treat. Germany.

  14. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,695

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Blue, what size tubing are you going to use for the tips and how will you secure the tube at the top and at the weight when you heat up. I am also interested in the parts that will secure the queen for insemination, I know the carbon dioxide comes in at the bottom so I think there are 3 parts to that system. Do you hope to have your rig going by spring when you will be able to rear queens and try it out.
    Johno

  15. #94

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Blue, what size tubing are you going to use for the tips and how will you secure the tube at the top and at the weight when you heat up. I am also interested in the parts that will secure the queen for insemination, I know the carbon dioxide comes in at the bottom so I think there are 3 parts to that system. Do you hope to have your rig going by spring when you will be able to rear queens and try it out.
    Johno
    For the top I will use a rubber o ring pushed over the glass tube above the top plate, for the weight which I have to drill and tap as yet, I will use a plastic thumb screw and a slither of shrink wrap over the end to stop crushing, you can use rubber or plastic like this guy, where I got the basic layout from. You can get a hundred of those plastic thumb screws for a few bucks online.
    If you watch what he does, he slides the taper into his Verneer gauge until it stops then tilts it to break it off, Cushman says he inserts a gauge wire inside and where it stops he cuts it level with the end of the wire inserted from the wider end, but I'm sure there are lots of variants to getting the desired product.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ii8fS4Be0

    For the tips I will go for the smaller 2.00mm glass tube as per Cushman's intro, but still try and get the 4.00 mm going as well for my original idea.

    http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/makingtips.html

    For the Co2 I'm going buy Pete's recommendation, mini mig welding bottle and brass tap, no flow gauge and a glass flask from the scientific glass company for a quid with cork bung and two 4.00mm glass tubes, one below water level and one above for the outlet, Pete says, one bubble per second is sufficient to narcotise the queen whilst she is in the queen post.

    https://s24.postimg.org/w0ihpn0v9/IMG_0094.jpg

    https://s29.postimg.org/6ssjfassn/IMG_0091.jpg

    The queen post tube is part of a surface gauge clamp, they are fitted to the magnetic base versions as well. I will use a plastic tube to fit over the brass 1/4 tube and try that, and hold her in with my finger until she dozes off, if that doesn't work I will try heat forming the tube so it has a slightly smaller opening size.

    I hope to have most tools done before the end of January if possible.

    For the Harbo set up I'm going to do this one, or very similar using ply for the frame, using an old micrometer dial body.
    The micrometer dial will want to turn so you have to use the coupling that the handle of the plunger fits inside, you don't really want the plunger to turn inside the rubber seal but be stationary, this little coupling enables this, and let the micrometer turn instead of the plunger.

    https://s30.postimg.org/lrsn5rlip/IMG_0121.jpg

    I'm going to swap the standard plastic plunger for a brass one due to its turnability in the wood lathe it's really simple to do and cheap.

    One item I have yet to secure is the micro bore extension from the syringe to the insemination post, I know you can get these ready made but I don't know the name of them?
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-22-2016 at 05:00 AM.

  16. #95

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephenpbird View Post
    Just a quick post to say how much I am enjoying this thread and to encourage its continuation. Thank you Little boy blue.
    Thank you Stephenbird, it's always good to help those who want to help themselves, if more do this the better things could be. Today many are reluctant to share their knowledge and dint with others for reasons unknown, but the venerable Pike once said that, all virtue is a struggle, and how right he was.

    For myself it's unlocking the mysteries and a vision of how things might be, our links with nature and the range of the human spirit, and how the parisimoniousness of nature gives up its secrets that interests me, especially bees in the wild, and those so conditioned and domesticated as Brother Adam saw things, so are we being conditioned by those with superior knowledge.

    All of what I share here is for everyone to share, I hope we can iron out any problems together.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 12-22-2016 at 06:26 AM.

  17. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,002

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Danny, all is coming along nicely! I think you will still need to downsize your tools. If you have a dead queen in the freezer or something, put her in your instrument to try. Space is very limited and you may have difficulty getting the hooks and tip in there.

    As for your syringe, you are on the right track. The Gilmont Syringe is the driver for the Harbo. The Gilmont's used to be made of machined pieces, but to save costs, they are now all molded pieces and not the same quality of movements in my opinion. The Hamilton you showed should be a very smooth option, although I have not tried it.

    Keep up the good work!
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  18. #97

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Thanks JSL

    I had thought about the working sizes as in, the working distance below the scope and hot spot with her in situ etc, and will hang fire with any final adjustments to the rest of the setup, these things can be done when I fully realise the whole set up in situ and then work from there, but keep me on track, much is appreciated for sure.

    I am quietly confident about the syringe layout as I have used similar in the lab, but they were motorised and well beyond my wallet. The part to get right is the delay situation between forward and reverse as is often needed to get the semen to travel smoothly, this is seen in the many videos available.

    Do you have a good supply of the ready made tubes with the standard syringe connections or their listing name. I could make up these using micro bore and silicone bungs, but the ready made is so much easier and looks better.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:18 AM.

  19. #98

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I was milling around in the bits box and came across these ball units, for those who might like to use a wooden sets these are available too.

    https://s19.postimg.org/5v630akpf/IMG_0126.jpg

  20. #99
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,002

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Little boy blue View Post
    Do you have a good supply of the ready made tubes with the standard syringe connections or their listing name. I could make up these using micro bore and silicone bungs, but the ready made is so much easier and looks better.
    I have the pieces made for the syringe used with my instrument, but you can fashion something similar out of a 0.25cc or a 0.50cc insulin syringe which are pretty common. A 1cc will work too, but it is a bit large to get very good control. If you have a mircometer to use, an all glass syringe and glass plunger would work pretty slick and be very accurate for you. I prefer to make the plungers using a threaded rod and an o-ring for better accuracy. Even the little bit of lay in the rubber and plastic on a standard disposable syringe has a good bit of play in it. It can work, but to me the lag in response is frustrating.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  21. #100

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I understand what you say about the lag in response, even my Snapon digital micrometers have a tiny bit of lag.

    How about the larger micrometers as Pete suggested to me, the syringe could be made to fit in the tail end side and then mount the whole unit into a block.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:18 AM.

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