Instrumental Insemination Equipment - Page 17
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  1. #321

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    Little boy blue
    Thanks for the sting hook DIY i was stuck on the build of the sting hook . Now i can complete the Unit.
    And remember, if you can see it with bold eye, it is too big.

    If poison gets there, it might get so slippery it has to be cleaned, really nerve wrecking before Kari told me this.

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  3. #322
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    7,861

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Why not use a reversed tweezers instead for the sting hook?
    I've ordered one already for this experiment. Hopefully it will get here soon.
    Don't mix foreign bees into a virgin hive. She might get balled 100% of the time! When will you ever learn, huh?

  4. #323

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    I have not Tried any of the Equipment yet . From reading i thought it would be best to keep the collection saline in the glass portion as it can be easily sterilized. With no experience in this field i will monitor the reply's . I see we have some others with great knowledge nudging us in the right directions
    From experience in the labs as a junior medic in the military we were taught that it's best to stick with glass if you can, especially where reproduction is concerned, due to plastics and their bi-product of its manufacture and a particular chemical known as BPA or Bisphenol A, also Zeno Eastrogens.

    If certain alkaline or acidic mediums are used these chemicals can leach out from the plastic into the medium or mediums itself being stored within it, this was discovered back in the late 1800's, shortly after plastics were in manufacture, there is plenty of information in the medical journals about this phenomenon which can be detrimental to the early development of insects and humans.

  5. #324

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by beepro View Post
    Why not use a reversed tweezers instead for the sting hook?
    I've ordered one already for this experiment. Hopefully it will get here soon.
    Thats a great idea, then the pressure is always present until your ready to lose off, in fact this is exactly how the Shelly grabbers work by positive pressure.

  6. #325

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    And remember, if you can see it with bold eye, it is too big.

    If poison gets there, it might get so slippery it has to be cleaned, really nerve wrecking before Kari told me this.
    The pre-quote is from Gman, however, with my eyes I cannot see anything nearer than three feet away without spectacles, but I could see the item in question on the photo that I posted of my first attempt of a perforated sting hook, due to the nature of the technology.

    That hook in question was accurately rolled down again in my jewelers rollers and should be right to go.

    The real test situation will reveal all under the scope pretty soon.

  7. #326
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    UKRAINE
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    No expensive professional hookshttp://carnica.all.biz/ I buy there, the price of 20 euros per set.

  8. #327

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment





    Latest manipulator head.




    image upload no limit

    Below is my home made sting grabber, the sewing needle can be seen holding a .013 mm soft electrical wire.

    upload img

    I might need to go a size smaller needle but I will try it first.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 02-13-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  9. #328
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    UKRAINE
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Little boy blue. If the hole diameter to not more 0.20 mm then all is well. I wonder where you take your time? Well done.

  10. #329

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by teplov View Post
    Little boy blue. If the hole diameter to not more 0.20 mm then all is well. I wonder where you take your time? Well done.
    Дякую

    The needle hole will close to zero if there is no sting inside the eye, so I think it will work.

    Maybe alter the end nose shape to match curve of sting.

  11. #330
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Albany, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,006

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Little boy blue View Post

    upload img

    I might need to go a size smaller needle but I will try it first.
    Too many other commitments with the bee season gearing up! Danny, the instruments are coming along nicely. Just a couple of quick comments. I would be cautious with the multiple queen carousel. It does not reduce handling, and the queens in close like that may interfere with your working space. Looking at your sting manipulator, my concern would be working space. Instruments need to be very small and compact especially with the initial approach to open and secure the queen. There just isn't much room to maneuver.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  12. #331

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    Too many other commitments with the bee season gearing up! Danny, the instruments are coming along nicely. Just a couple of quick comments. I would be cautious with the multiple queen carousel. It does not reduce handling, and the queens in close like that may interfere with your working space. Looking at your sting manipulator, my concern would be working space. Instruments need to be very small and compact especially with the initial approach to open and secure the queen. There just isn't much room to maneuver.
    Hi Joe

    My initial design analysis for this apparatus goes as follows.

    You would think at first glance that there is a limited space, but after measuring up there is actually a little more room than many other systems out there. The hands actually work around the outer edge instead of in between posts, the sting hook itself can be retracted and swung out of the way immediately without having to turn any lock screws etc. If you use tweezers for the sting this post is absent giving a little more space.

    The left hand doesn't come into contact with the queen posts while working, and the injection needle can be lifted completely out of the working area inside it's inner protective tube in about a second leaving three full inches for comfortably removing the newly serviced post.

    The catcher loader will work on the opposite side of the table loading, as the vacant post is fitted, and at the same time the treated post is removed by them from the other side so as to prevent any clash of hands. This stage alone takes the seasoned operators in the videos I have watched about half a minute to load up properly without possible damage to the queens legs etc, so a huge saving when you are doing many queens an hour.

    The ventral hook cam is ideal because it replaces the more clumbersom arm that would normall be used.

    The hook is then swung back over and hangs completely out of the way of the table as it is indexed round.

    The base is eight inches across. There is a good two inches between queen posts.

    I have other designs in the pipeline that can be adopted but, this one simplifies the gas supply to all posts at once and is positioned so that the queens get a little less gas as they approach the central supply area where after this point they get a little more prior to being worked upon.

    There is still a lot of work and testing to be done from the team who will be testing it out this summer.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 02-13-2017 at 07:22 PM.

  13. #332
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,225

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    I would be cautious with the multiple queen carousel. It does not reduce handling, and the queens in close like that may interfere with your working space.
    I agree, The process of placing the queen in the holder is easy and really doesn't add much to the entire process. Besides, with the carousel you'll need to keep them anesthetized longer than necessary. I'm assuming that CO2 is fed to all tubes. If not anesthetized and left inside the tubes, the queens may injure themselves trying to get out. I place them in the holder and quickly place them in the CO2 stream. Minor position adjustments are still possible while anesthetized.

    Great work! I've been admiring your craftsmanship.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  14. #333

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by teplov View Post
    If the hole diameter to not more 0.20 mm then all is well.
    I did measurements (from several photos and with electornic caliper ) of my sting hook dimensions, and get the same result: 0,2mm.

    Sting hook end.jpg

  15. #334

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    I agree, The process of placing the queen in the holder is easy and really doesn't add much to the entire process. Besides, with the carousel you'll need to keep them anesthetized longer than necessary. I'm assuming that CO2 is fed to all tubes. If not anesthetized and left inside the tubes, the queens may injure themselves trying to get out. I place them in the holder and quickly place them in the CO2 stream. Minor position adjustments are still possible while anesthetized.

    Great work! I've been admiring your craftsmanship.
    Yes the gas is fed to all posts with the initial or main supply coming in at the opposite side facing the injector position.

    The gas dissipates either side of this feed in point and travels in either direction around the channel shown underneath in the pictures shown earlier round to the vent or fifth post that is always open next to the tool post for the ventral hook.

    As the queens in their posts move round and each one is serviced, they receive slightly more gas towards the final working position.

    I have noticed that the queens are placed prior to handling in a seperate container to pre-med her before loading her into the service post/s, this is equivalent to the same amount of gas when they are first placed into the starting point on the turn table, and a steady continuation of that amount of gas is extant thereafter in relation to its position from the in feed or exhaust position under the carousel or turntable.

    When watching others working, once out of the flow of gas the queens recover quite quickly, my question earlier was, can you give too much gas and actually asphyxiate the queen and actually kill her ?, IE volume versus time??

    I designed this system in mind to be used with two operators, one catching and loading and working from the opposite side of the table, leaving the other to concentrate on injecting alone, which would save down time between catching, pre-gassing, loading and positioning.

    It's a new idea from the sole operators point of view and needs more study to iron out any problems, thanks for the kind words and encouragement BTW.

    There are a few more ideas in the pipe line.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 02-14-2017 at 01:51 PM.

  16. #335

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    I did measurements (from several photos and with electornic caliper ) of my sting hook dimensions, and get the same result: 0,2mm.

    Sting hook end.jpg
    The modern cameras really do show more detail in close up situations than the general good human eye don't they

  17. #336

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Finally found an easy way to make a decent sting hook.

    I took a Sterling silver wire 1.00 mm and rolled it down to .50 mm and then annealed it to soften it.

    Then simply took a small sewing needle .50 mm diameter and using a small clock makers hammer pierced it with a couple of gentle taps.

    Then using a .018 gauge wire I gently reamed it using the same needle held in a pin chuck until the hole was to the desired size.

    Down time to make things fit was around 4 minutes from piercing the hole.

    image ru

    After reshaping and work hardening the result was quite satisfactory.

    The picture above shows the very point of the needle showing after only two gentle taps of the hammer, I have gauged the very point of this sewing needle to be near the .008 area.

    If you don't have a set of rolls you can hammer it flat or buy ready made flat strip .50 mm which is already annealed. I rolled the entire length of wire here, but you can leave the opposite end to the eye, fully round to fit in a pin chuck like those pictured on my manipulator arms for easy removal.

    When you pierce the metal use a block of hardwood to hammer against and do so away from the very end, so it doesn't bend inwards, IE, leave a few millimeters length past where the hole will be and sand down using 320 paper afterwards.






    photo sharing sites

    screen shot pc

    The shank of the needle show here is. 50 mm in diameter

    You can buy a 300.00 mm long wire of silver here for only £ 2.21 including tax and make quite a few which work out at pennies each.

    http://www.cooksongold.com/product_detail.jsp?add=n

    Hit the show more button and add your amount then update for prices.

    Hope that helps what can be a task and a half to many who want to make their own for less.
    Last edited by Little boy blue; 02-14-2017 at 01:41 PM.

  18. #337

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Little boy blue View Post
    ...and rolled it down ...
    ...then annealed it to soften it...

    ...a small clock makers hammer pierced it...
    ...reamed it using the same needle held in a pin chuck until the hole was to size...
    ... I have gauged the very point of this sewing needle to be near the .008 area..
    ...you don't have a set of rolls you can hammer it flat...
    ...and sand down using 320 paper afterwards...
    Wow, you sure are a craftsman!
    Reminds me of a car restoration course I took back in 2005 in Peterborough. Iain and Bruce Macleod teached us how to bend metal with English wheel and dozens of other tools.

  19. #338

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    Wow, you sure are a craftsman!
    Reminds me of a car restoration course I took back in 2005 in Peterborough. Iain and Bruce Macleod teached us how to bend metal with English wheel and dozens of other tools.
    Peterborough England? Sounds cool, I have restored quite a few old motorcycles in the past.

    I have run instrument courses and given detailed instruction to many international students in the past and really enjoyed working with many Europeans and one Japanese student who stayed with us for six months.

    But this II project has been one of the most critical and a real challenge which I seem to thrive on.

    Once I have mastered this paradigm, I might give detailed instructions of how to make a system all rolled into one, maybe.

    Kiltos.

  20. #339

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Little boy blue View Post
    Peterborough England?
    http://www.contourautocraft.co.uk/

    (Ole hyvš= You are wellcome)

  21. #340

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    http://www.contourautocraft.co.uk/

    (Ole hyvš= You are wellcome)
    Top shop and tools, brilliant.

    Love the old English rolls and auto hammers.

    Did you use any of the skills learned, in your line of work today.

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