Instrumental Insemination Equipment
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  1. #1
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    Default Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I'm attempting to fabricate an instrumental insemination device, can anyone give me the ideal inside diameter for the tube that holds the queen?

    -Jay

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  4. #3
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    CAMARILLO, California, USA
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    This might help:
    Queenholder tube set

    Art.-No 1.51
    Backup-tube (left side)
    Art.-No 1.52
    Holding-tube (right, inside 6,8 / 5 mm)
    Good Luck.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  5. #4

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpoindexter View Post
    I'm attempting to fabricate an instrumental insemination device, can anyone give me the ideal inside diameter for the tube that holds the queen?

    -Jay
    Hi Jay

    I'm now starting to gather a few items for the same task, it would be great to bounce a few ideas off of each other.
    I have got a cheap supply of glass tubes for making my own spindle and now making my own glass tubes come injection units, for the collection of the sperm I'm using a pepette vaccum handle used in the labs.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Just look for a large diameter pen with a clear plastic lower end, disassemble it, disc sand the tip little by little until the queen's abdomen sticks part way out. Then lightly deburr or raduis the inside diameter a tiny bit with 1000 grit Wet-or-Dry sand paper. A clear vynyl hose goes from the CO2 source to the queen holder.

    I make a very cheap unit for $50.00 out of off-the-shelf parts. You'll groan when you see it - its so simple. This does not include CO2 bottle, nor regulator, nor microscope, nor syringe, just the fixture stand. PM me if you want one.

    OOPS! Just notice it is a resurrected thread from 2012...oh, well, have a go at it!

  7. #6

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I know the pens you mean, the BIC clear biro pen, great idea thanks, some of the older ideas are sometimes the best.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:26 AM.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Kilocharlie, I tried to PM you but your box is full, How about posting your set up with some pics.
    Johno

  9. #8
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    Dec 2010
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    Ojai, California
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Tried to answer and the server kicked my reply down the tube.

    I just cleared a few old PMs.

    Anyways, there is nearly ZERO market for these things, so I will not be patenting anything. Have a go yourself if you wish, or, I'll be happy to build you one.

    I made my unit out of 2 items from Harbor Freight Tools and some hardware store items. The HFT items were two different magnifying glass stands for soldering small stuff. There is a light weight model and a slightly heavier one. I cannibalized the 2 to make one I.I. stage device, removed the magnifying glasses, swapped out and/or modified the arms, and had to drill 1 hole. I used 2 of their dental picks for the sting chamber hooks.

    The hardware store parts were mostly clear vynyl tubing and adapters and a brass valve to connect and regulate the CO2 system to the queen holding cone.

    I have a dumb phone that does have a camera. I can't quite figure out how to post photos with it. I did own a digital camera for awhile, and Oldtimer and InTheSwamp helped me get some photos up, but the [email protected]^^ thing promptly died on me. I bought another digital camera and it got stolen before I got home.

    I'll get some help from any local friend that knows how this goes. I'll go buy the parts and make another I.I. stage fixture, and try to post an "Oldtimer" or a "Lauri" quality thread about it.

    This is NOT a high-quality I.I. device, and y'all are gonna groan when you see it, its so simple. I now have a CO2 tank, still need a regulator, a microscope, and a Harbo syringe (just buy the one from Dr.Cobey - it's the best!).

    Yay! my post went up

  10. #9

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Hi KC

    I have been practicing the sperm collection using one of these handy devices that I used to use in my medical days, using plain old full cream milk as a substitute, the small wheel has great control and is very accurate. They are well made and come apart to clean.

    https://www.sciquip.co.uk/products/l...tte-pumps.html

    Here is the same pipettes as mine being used, the red is the larger dia unit, but the blue 2ml version is good for me. The orifice of the pipettes has a tapered medical grade rubber cone that can accommodate tubes right down to two millimetres so you can add a plastic hose for use as an ancillary or remote device.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZ6sREzCsc

    I'm also part way into make a drop rig to make my own glass pipettes, found a really good scientific glass blowers here in the U.K. who are very helpful indeed, 1.5. Meters of 3, 4 and five millimetre tube are a buck each.

    I chose glass versus plastic because plastic has harmful BPA's in it or Bishenol A,s which can be detrimental to sperm as these chemicals can slowly leach into the fluid, this is something I learned about thirty years ago when working in the labs whilst preparing live samples, always use glass if you can.

    I would be interested to find out what diameter the tiny balls, I.E. green and blue are used in the Shelly Co2 unit, because the graduated tube is a standard syringe or can be made using one I'm told.

    Co2 can be bought in the small throw away one quart welding cansisters, these should last a fair while.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:27 AM.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Welcome to Beesource, 'Blue!

    Love your enthusiasm, but I would just get the Harbo syringe. The needles are just right for extracting drone semen (you'll probably need loupes for this - I need 15 power), and the capacity is huge. You and 2 friends can draw semen from drones all day long and not fill it. You can see it on her website. If you can make one, more power to you.

    www.honeybeeinsemination.com

    Click on "equipment" at the top of the home page.

    The efficiency comes with a slightly better stage than mine that is easier to make repeatable. Mine just makes I.I. possible, not fast, unless you are very mechanically adept at small stuff. A clever, persistent person could succeed with it.

    The entire process is some effort and money- a strong apiary, queen rearing yards, the queen bank, the drone bank, the queen and drone holding/shipping cages, the I.I. system, the record keeping system.

    The 'scope is not cheap, but there is the internet. DO order Dr. Cobey's DVD.

    Meanwhile, she has posted this one last year ( a 2007 publication by Ohio State Univ.), best internet I.I. video I've seen to date.

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/s...ca&action=view

    You have to click on the one in the lower right corner with Sue's picture on it - Part I is 19:03 long. The one above it is Part II, it looks about 6:05 long. You may have to X the video of Part I in order to find Part II.

    After watching the video, I get an appreciation as to how nice that Schley device really is. The goal in a breeding program is to get a whole bunch of them laying eggs, so you'll want a LOT of practice and a LOT of successes. There are a lot of steps, each one has to be mastered. That means a lot of fails along the way.

    I believe the video sold in the catalogs of her explaining I.I. is longer, so probably even more detailed. It's only about 30 bucks, a huge bargain. I'd get that, try to get set up, and reserve a summer class with her at Whidbey Island, or take the U.C. Davis or WSU courses. You need to understand the genetics program goals driving the need for I.I., not just inseminate them. That's at least a year study if you're already way into it, and there's nobody in the world better to teach you this practice, although I suppose Dr. Schley and Dr. Latshaw are pretty good, too.

    In preparation for her classes, read Queen Rearing and Bee Breeding, by Dr. Harry H. Laidlaw, Jr and Dr. Robert Page, Jr., if you have not already done so.
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 12-14-2016 at 06:23 PM.

  12. #11

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    https://s28.postimg.org/uvy317z31/IMG_0057.jpg

    https://s28.postimg.org/xptdy2agd/IMG_0058.jpg

    I have found the cushman site invaluable over the years, I made these plug cutters from K&S tubing from the States, from 7/16, inch and a half long, sharpened to a razor edge one end, I have cut perfect plugs from comb without damaging it.

    Then slide the wooden plug home to push the plug slightly out the end, works really well.

  13. #12

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    One of our group has her DVD which we can watch.

    My system is almost like the Harpo, but we use the pipettes pump in place of the turn buckle type, it does the same thing really and sucks, no pun intended..

    I will post some pictures when I get the one piece spindles made.

    This will be our light source.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/dbk/Rolso...flexible+torch

    Can't wait to get going to be honest.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:27 AM.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I love your light source.

    I have a cousin who does smooth muscle research at U. N. Reno, his research partner makes awesome pipettes small enough to barely poke through a cell wall and introduce precise fluids. He built a machine that controls the heat to a small fraction of a degree and uses piezoelectric servos to stretch and to break them apart, microns at a time. Guess I should go talk to him about making me up a batch of I.I. needles.

    Thanks for resurrecting this old thread and getting my blood flowing again. I really ought to get up to the shop and build a microscope. It need not be anything super fancy. I should just try to find some retired optics with a very fine rack and pinon gear set, make mounts for the right kind of lens, get my old lens grinder buddy to make me up a set of something to handle the 5x - 45x range.

    BTW, how many active in your UK group? I see that Dave Cushman's site had something like 80 I.I. enthusiasts at one point. I'd love to get in on the chats. Adam Finkelstein has a good forum last I saw.

  15. #14

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    We have four in our group and looking for more, all retired and get bored during the long winter months, I like to keep the old grey busy and this little project is doing that.

    Have a look at the girl making bio needles for insemination.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vH1Uw85tSFY

    I found this stereo but it might be too powerful

    http://www.hometrainingtools.com/20x...reo-microscope
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:27 AM. Reason: quoting

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Welcome to Beesource, 'Blue!




    I believe the video sold in the catalogs of her explaining I.I. is longer, so probably even more detailed. It's only about 30 bucks, a huge bargain. I'd get that, try to get set up, and reserve a summer class with her at Whidbey Island, or take the U.C. Davis or WSU courses. You need to understand the genetics program goals driving the need for I.I., not just inseminate them. That's at least a year study if you're already way into it, and there's nobody in the world better to teach you this practice, although I suppose Dr. Schley and Dr. Latshaw are pretty good, too.
    Well said Kilocharlie! II is just a tool, it has to work with everything else. Sue is a great instructor as she has a really soft touch with the queens. Well worth the time if you have the opportunity to work with her!
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  18. #17
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    Sep 2007
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    New Albany, Ohio, USA
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Little boy blue View Post
    I found this stereo but it might be too powerful

    http://www.hometrainingtools.com/20x...reo-microscope
    It could work, but when faced with fixed objectives, I prefer 10X over 20X. 20X just seems to close for me. With a zoom, I normally work in the 12-15X range.
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I enjoy designing and making instruments. Beekeepers will often share with me that they have made their own equipment, but are embarrassed to share it because it is "too crude or simple". Let's see some pics of "homemade" equipment and I will dig up some photos of my early work too. Don't be shy!
    Breeder Queens & Honey Bee Nutritional Supplements
    www.latshawapiaries.com

  20. #19

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    Hi JSL

    This was my third attempt at hand drawing a spindle this afternoon, the tube is boracilicate grade 4.00 mm diameter, 0.8 wall thickness, I used a standard blow lamp but the heat was slightly under parr so I used the mini torch which has a much finer hotter concentrated flame.

    The tip is less than 1.00mm, my idea is to get one which will act as tube and needle in one section.

    https://s30.postimg.org/s3pvmbj01/IMG_0060.jpg

    There are several cheaper end stereo scopes but they all tend to start at 20 times mag, do you know of any other affordable units less than 200.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-14-2017 at 03:28 AM. Reason: quoting

  21. #20

    Default Re: Instrumental Insemination Equipment

    I made these two brass smokers a few years ago to an old English design, they work pretty well for the quick inspection, the fuel lasts about fifteen to twenty minutes.

    https://s19.postimg.org/dm8xcljo3/20160923_092400.jpg

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