Jerry Hayes/Monsanto - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Would I be correct in assuming that any critic of Monsanto on here never spent an hour much less a good part of ones summer pulling velvetleaf, pigweed, cockleburs and a host of various thistles (and you kids make sure you cut the heads off those thistles too don't just lay them down) from soybean fields? After a few days of that I was never so glad to see an extracting room. When I started hearing that farmers were spraying and the days of getting up at 5am to walk beans may be over my very first thought was "but are you absolutely sure that its environmentally responsible?". FWIW that's the world according to Jim.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Mark,

    the first thing I have to do is pay my mortgage. I have a great fish book, it is the bible of fish books it covers every disease affecting tropical fish for the last 200 years. And it doesn't cover enteric septicemia or the new strains of ich. My fish pay my bills. So what do I read, the epic tome, or the current stuff that I pick up on the net.

    I'm only online this week because I have a serious website overhaul in progress, much-needed. I write my html the old fashioned way, in Wordpad. For me it's faster than an editor.

    When the bees start paying my bills, I might have more leisure for reading. I own literally 1000's of books. I don't know what year it will be when I give myself permission to read something for fun again. Much less the whole background of beekeeping. I do own Beekeeping for Dummies. Haven't read a page of it, but I have it.

    I'll take your word that he is suited. Since I presently don't read his stuff, it isn't going to make much difference who he works for. As for local opinions, I joined my local beeclub. Because the gal I bought my bees from didn't know what the heck she was doing. And I followed her advice. So much for a mentor.


    And as for cocklebur, have you ever dug out goatshead, aka sandspur? Makes pigweed a piece of cake. I've been digging weeds for 30 years, and using compost to make it easier for 25. But I don't do large acreage. To each their own.
    Gypsi
    Last edited by Gypsi; 12-20-2011 at 08:00 PM. Reason: gardening stuff
    Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, flood and strange weather. The bees are still alive.

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    I have worked months and months for Monsanto over the past 17 years. They have the best safety program that I have been associated with, and I have consulted for most of the big oil companies and their service companies. The safety program tells me a lot about a company. If a company is willing to spend time and money, but I repeat myself, on safety I am impressed.

    Monsanto always requires all drilling activities to be the closed loop system. That means that when drilling several thousand feet deep on their projects, and they do not want one drop of drip on their location. In my experience they are extremely good stewards of the land.

    Corporations are supposed to work within the laws of the land. I have drilled five deep wells on Monsanto property and they were always within the laws and regulations of all concerned agencies.

    It seems that some of our posters have an altruistic view of corporations. Corporations pay large salaries and bonuses CEOs and their lieutenants so long as there are profits to distribute. Don’t be misled, corporations exist to make profits.

    I don't know Monsanto's history, but assuming they were bad actors at one time, could they have changed their modus operandi. I think people change, and I think companies change. I think everything changes. What's exactly the same?

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Let me play the devils advocate here. I am not convinced that Monsanto is the monster that some have made them out to be. Now, having opened my mouth and inserted foot, let me give my entire view. In any Corporation there are good managers and not so good managers. Sometimes they let greed cloud out common sense business practices. It can come and go at any company with the change of management. Even low levels of management can not be following the intended desire of upper management. So I think Jerry Hayes has a much better idea of what is going on at Monsanto than anyone posting here. So at very best all we can do is hope he can get thru to someone in higher management and convince them that it is not in Monsanto best interest (financial health) in the long run to destroy the bees as some have suggested they want to do. But I have always said that when in Rome you must do as the Romans do if you are going to survive in the long haul. I do not know Jerry Hayes, but while I believe he will do all he can to protect the bees in the end he will do what Monsanto wants him to. Money talks and you know what walks!!
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    There are plenty of problems with the promises made by Monsanto for their products.

    Just read, "The World According to Monsanto" by Robin.

    Superweeds, genetic contamination of seed stocks, profit losses, loss of export markets, loss of pest resistance, loss of biodiversity, lawsuits...

    I think that you're going to see something similar happen to the Honeybee, with American Beekeepers going through yet another a 'living nightmare', this time at Monsanto's hands.

    I would use much more 'colorful language' to describe someone who is about to deliver me into the hands of a ruthless opponent.

    'Sellout' just isn't strong enough a word for it.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    There have been several of our posters that seem to well acquainted with Jerry Hayes and his work. All of those people are very complimentary of Jerry as a man and as a professional beekeeper. He seems like the kind of guy that will help Monsanto and serve our intereste at the same time. If one takes the positition that Monsanto is pure evil, then the hiring of people like Jerry will dilute their evil. It's a good thing for all concerned.

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Someone needs to run monsanto out of bees before they get in !!!!! What's up their sleeves, charging everyone a tech. fee because they were exposed to gmo plants, or your not allowed to make your own splits because that would be the equivalant of farmers saving gmo seed for planting. monsanto needs to stay out of the beekeeping world.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    If there is anyone suited for a job like this one, it's Jerry.
    Mark, why do you think Monsanto hired Jerry? Do they or DID they have the same concerns? As a friendly suggestion you should read more about that in your spare time.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #50
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by lazy shooter View Post

    I don't know Monsanto's history, but assuming they were bad actors at one time, could they have changed their modus operandi. I think people change, and I think companies change. I think everything changes. What's exactly the same?
    That's just it, there is a lot of documented history associated with Monsanto that has created those feelings of distrust that many have towards the company.

    What's exactly the same? How about Monsanto's desire to gain dominance over the seed supply through the use of GMO's, seed patents, the purchase of other seed houses, and then dropping or abandoning open pollinated seed varieties that can not be legally controlled or restricted. What's to make one think that their goals would be any different if they were in a position to control bees or plant pollination in any degree?

    You can argue that that's how all businesses operate but who wants a corporation wielding control and ownership of something as essential to us as the ability to plant or save a seed, or as routine as how to care for our bees? Some of their past practices seem to go far beyond the interest of making "improvements" and are monopolistic.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Mark, why do you think Monsanto hired Jerry? Do they or DID they have the same concerns? As a friendly suggestion you should read more about that in your spare time.
    See Post #33 in this Thread and you will see what Monsanto was looking for. The why may be two fold, to help their image and to help beekeepers, which would help their image. Not being a spokesman for Monsanto, I have no real idea of their motivation other than what I have heard from Jerry.

    Is there something specific you are refering me to?
    Mark Berninghausen

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Would I be correct in assuming that any critic of Monsanto on here never spent an hour much less a good part of ones summer pulling velvetleaf, pigweed, cockleburs and a host of various thistles (and you kids make sure you cut the heads off those thistles too don't just lay them down) from soybean fields?
    Jim,

    I remember those days! Only it was certified seed soybean and wheat fields. Volunteer corn plants in a soybean field could result in the loss of certification. Mustard in wheat was loads of fun.

    As an undergrad I had two acres of PYO strawberries. Roundup was a great tool for spot treatment of weeds. Customers just won't bushwhack through thistles to find strawberries around their ankles!

    Everyone may not like Monsanto or other large corporations. But, they are a part of the world we live in. I'd trade varroa for Monsanto any day!

    Tom

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Is there something specific you are refering me to?
    No Mark, you are hearing some of the concerns from other people that I am already aware of. It doesn't do you any good for me to tell you what my concerns are.

    A large corporation is like a flywheel. It is physically impossible for it to change directions because the whole upper level management would have to change at once. The only way to change Monsanto is to break it up like the AT&T phone company in an anti trust lawsuit. To think that a single individual would have any influence on the direction a mega corp would take is really like putting your head in the sand. It is not to big to fail it is too big to change. That is what we missed in the last recession we haven't got out of yet.
    But if you believe in hope...
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    My bet is that Monsanto will patent a gene that gets inserted into the bees.
    They'll let it out into the environment, then sue any beekeeper that has that gene in their bees.
    It's what they do, and it's not that hard.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by TWall View Post
    Customers just won't bushwhack through thistles to find strawberries around their ankles!
    I don't know what you are doing wrong but we picked 25 quarts of strawberries this year from an organic farmer who doesn't use Roundup. I didn't see any thistle. My only complaint was kneeling on sharp rocks about the size of your fists. The strawberry jam is to die for which is why I suffered through kneeling on rocks.

    They sell out every year so this nonsense about needing poisons doesn't make sense to me.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't know what you are doing wrong but we picked 25 quarts of strawberries this year from an organic farmer who doesn't use Roundup. I didn't see any thistle. My only complaint was kneeling on sharp rocks about the size of your fists. The strawberry jam is to die for which is why I suffered through kneeling on rocks.

    They sell out every year so this nonsense about needing poisons doesn't make sense to me.
    Ace,

    I'm not sure why you thought I was doing something wrong? Maybe the fact that I used Roundup to kill a weed that would have prevented my customers from picking strawberries? It was only applied to the weeds, not the strawberries. If you had come to my farm you would not have complained about the sharp rocks. But, I can't give Monsanto or Roundup the credit for no rocks. Four different glaciers tended to pulverize the rocks to dust, greatly improving with soil fertility.

    I sold out every year also. My customers appreciated weed-free fields. This was long before organic farming became as popular as it is today. Monsanto was a much smaller company.

    Your reference to using poisons doesn't make sense to me. What are you talking about? The spot application of roundup to the weeds only? Is roundup poisonous? Let's compare some LD 50's of some common "poisons'. To compare apples to apples these numbers are all for rats.

    Roundup/glyphosate: 5600 mg/kg
    Aspirin: 200 mg/kg
    Ibuprofen: 636 mg/kg
    Omeprazole: 2210 mg/kg
    Pyrethrins: 200-2600 mg'kg - sometimes used as "organic" insecticide

    This type of fear mongering is what creates misinformed impressions that many people build on. The same can be said for a lot of the hyperbole about Monsanto.

    Ultimately, the choice is up to Mr. Harris as to how he chooses to support himself. It really isn't any of our business. Monsanto is not the biggest problem facing beekeeping right now. IF you make the assumption that Monsanto is a problem facing beekeeping.

    Tom

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    TWall;

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    There are weeds roundup doesn't kill. The mighty sandspur, bane of Texas and New Mexico, which I tried to kill with roundup in 2009, I finally gave up and dug it all out. (watering before it goes to seed will kill it, I learned later, but my water bill wouldn't have handled it) My rolling trash cart holds 55 gallons, and I was filling it once a week with sandspur plants and seeds for months near the end of 2009. This being after the great propane torch experiment in October 2008 - which burned up the plants but not the seeds. Dallis Grass, bane of St. Augustine yards every where. Roundup kills St Augustine very well, btw. But not Dallis Grass. And it won't touch Bermuda. Bermuda holds a party and laughs. My big question is not whether roundup kills rats. It is whether it kills bees.

    There was some considerable concern that a GMO corn species that monsanto was distributing, impregnated with an insecticide, (I think) was killing bees. I bought sweet corn seed last year, made sure it was not monsanto, and it is carefully refrigerated, because I won't be buying more.

    My concern is that Monsanto's first line of concern is the profit line. The GMO's have already cross-pollinated with organic and heritage crops, contaminating their DNA. The means of contamination was bees, of course.
    And then Monsanto had the audacity to sue the owners of said organic and heritage crops for stealing their patent rights. But that's ok, wasn't my garden.

    If Monsanto starts messing with bee DNA, and it doesn't work out well, with 25% of food crops in this country dependent upon bees, the grocery store shelves Monsanto's experimentation is supposed to be stocking could well be empty.

    But as long as they aren't near me, it's not my problem. Or is it?
    Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, flood and strange weather. The bees are still alive.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    No Mark, you are hearing some of the concerns from other people that I am already aware of. It doesn't do you any good for me to tell you what my concerns are.

    But if you believe in hope...
    Oh, okay, I thought you wanted me to read some book or something. I thought that was what you were refering to.

    I hope Jerry does well and I hope what he does do will benefit the beekeeping industry. What's wrong w/ hope.
    Mark Berninghausen

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Jerry Hayes/Monsanto

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsi
    My concern is that Monsanto's first line of concern is the profit line.
    And yours isn't? If not, you must be quite well off or quite comfortably poor or fooling yourself. What's best for Gypsi is what concerns Gypsi and being in some way profitible is of unmost concern to Gypsi I imagine.
    Mark Berninghausen

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