Fogging with vinegar
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
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    381

    Default Fogging with vinegar

    Has anyone else ever heard or seen a machine that foggs the hive with vinegar. A friend of mine has this gaget that he is trying out. It has basicaly a blower and a propane torch, you put a little mixture with vinegar in it. It foggs the hive, it's supposed to be good for various things. He got it because he is commercial and got tired of paying for chems. He said it is working good so far, has anyone else heard of or used one? I can't find any info on them.
    All beekeepers can agree on one thing, and that one thing is, that all beekeepers can't agree on one thing.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    pomfret, ct,USA
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    162

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    As a newbee I have no basis for my opinion other than knowing what vinegar is and smells like. Seems like it would be more of an irritant and hassle than using smoke, a tried and true method.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,866

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    There are ads in the magazines for vinegar foggers, but they don't use the common, household vinegar. The vinegar they use is much, much stronger. This is not the same as using smoke. And this vinegar is not as benign as the stuff we buy in the grocery store.

    And if your buddy is fogging something with a "little mixture with vinegar in it," it must be the other stuff that's working.

    Several years ago, it was popular to use insecticidal or lawn foggers to heat Food Grade Mineral Oil (FGMO) with the additions of essential oils. These were hand-held and heated by propane cannisters. You can buy them at any lawn and garden center or hardware store for around $60. A Spanish vetrinarian popularized the method, but the criticism he received was too much. He became upset and left the country. Without his encouragement, the method seems to have slipped into obscurity.

    I tried his method and found no solid conclusions. By meticulously counting mites on sticky boards before and after treatments, comparing the results to untreated hives in the same apiary, I could not detect any improvement.

    However, as with most of these methods with anecdotal observations, I would be quick to say, "My hives never looked better." And they always do...until they die out from mite infestations.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    Geese, I love how everyone assumes you know absolutly nothing when you post a thread. First off this thing is not a smoker, not meant to replace one. It is to treat mites, varoa and tracheal as well as foulbrood etc. When I say mixture I mean you mix the vinegar with distilled water. It creates a fog out of the vinegar. You treat the hive in the spring and fall as you would with chems. He had a high mite count and after he used it, it did indeed work for that, as for the rest it's speculation. I am not saying I believe it works or I am planning to buy one. I was just curious about them and can't find any info on them. I guess I will just ask him where he got when I see him again.
    All beekeepers can agree on one thing, and that one thing is, that all beekeepers can't agree on one thing.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Meherrin, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    It sounds like you are talking about the "Cyclone" machine. It uses Acetic Acid (Strong Vinegar) mixed with water and vaporizes it into the hive. I have a friend who has one and I have used it. It definitely works for mites. You need to treat 3 times, 7 days apart for mites. The man that makes them used to run an add in one of the bee mags. He has several models to choose from. His # is 515-967-4962, if you want to call and ask questions. I don't know how well it works for diseases. There are lots of claims made for it, but I don't know of any long term studies with it. Whatever you do if you use it, DO NOT breath the vapor! It may sound harmless since it is "Vinegar", but it is a lot stronger!

    You should be able to find some old posts on here under "cyclone" or "acetic acid".

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    Thanks Fenc'in bee thats just I was looking for and needed to know that's the machine.
    Last edited by beehonest; 11-29-2011 at 06:19 PM. Reason: quoting - read forum rules
    All beekeepers can agree on one thing, and that one thing is, that all beekeepers can't agree on one thing.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,866

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    Quote Originally Posted by beehonest View Post
    Geese, I love how everyone assumes you know absolutly nothing when you post a thread.
    As I reader preparing a response, I can never assume too much, and given the communication barriers of e-mail, forums, etc., clarity is always a courtesy. Given the small window of response to the question, or even to a follow-up response, sometimes we offer too much information.

    As it sounds like I may have offended you, my apologies. These types of social intercourse often lack the inhibitions and the polite interruptions that would allow you to clarify your point before I speculated on what you don't know. How can we know? This is not the place for thin skin as much offense is unintended though readily taken.

    But on the other hand, when the question is about an unknown method (*and the woods are full of these anecdotal observations*) confusion is easily assumed. And it seems the crazier the method, the more it seems to be propagated as an untested fact. I'm amazed at the assuredness of, "My hives never looked better."

    And maybe they looked fantastic!

    But back to your original point, as you added clarification, yes, this method works, but I doubt the vinegar has anything to do with it, nor the distilled water. Plain water vapor will dislodge mites. Blowing smoke into the hive also works, and burning stag horn sumac is especially effective. Any fog of any kind will work to dislodge mites as the bees become aggitated in their attempts to clear the hive of the fogged material.

    Long term effectiveness? Not sure. How many times you need to reapply? Again, another wild card. Legality of any unapproved method? Side effects? Comparison to side-by-side untreated hives? There are a lot of questions.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Fogging with vinegar

    Thanks for your review and oppinions Grant.If you read my previous post just wanted to know if anybody had heard of or used one.
    All beekeepers can agree on one thing, and that one thing is, that all beekeepers can't agree on one thing.

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