Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.

    What I heard yesterday was that no one really knows what the treatment threshold is and what individual spore counts mean. The USDA Bee Lab recommendation is to treat at 1 million spores per bee. But there are plenty of cases of 8 to 10 million spores per bee which do fine untreated.

    So, what value is one sample? Be it from an individual colony or a composite sample from a small number in an apiary. The researchers seemed to say that multiple samples from a colony or apiary need to be done to have a real idea as to what is going on in a hive or apiary.
    Mark Berninghausen

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.

    Mark-
    I've taken two sets of samples from individual hives from the same yard two months apart. Each time all of the samples were taken within ten minutes of each other. I've consecutively had low spore counts for certain hives and higher spore counts for certain other hives. So I think that I have some hives that will have lower spore counts to be used for breeder queens. It's a good place to start anyway.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.

    I hope it is distinctly beneficial.
    Mark Berninghausen

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Faulkner Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.

    I am told 1 000 000 spores per bee as well. As long as there are not other stress factors like varroa, nutrition, trachea mites. At that point the threshold drops fast. Don't ask me the numbers but i have heard as little as 100 000 spores with low to moderate infestation of varroa. This also varies with the time of year. Spring at 1% varroa can send a hive to low honey production in the summer. Add nosema to the mix, and a colony could colapse by the middle of summer...get what i am trying to say?
    The threshold is yes, a million per bee, however, it drops with other stressors and with the time of season.

    I test by yard, foragers only. But problem hives, get their own test if they do not seem to grow in numbers.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    But there are plenty of cases of 8 to 10 million spores per bee which do fine untreated.
    define fine. surviving, making some honey? you can test a hive today and get high counts, test the same hive the next day and get low count? I monitored one apiary for two years, left every thing as equal as I can with hives going year to year, my honey production was not as high as when I originallly started the apiary. started treating with fumidial, honey production started rising, after the second year, was back up to what I considered normal, so started treating all my yards two years ago, I had the best per hive average this years since I moved to N.Y. So I have conviced myself that its worth the time and expense to treat, I mark each hive that gets treated(some don't take the medication) and compare them to other hivesin the yard(barring anything strange like swarming) the medicated hives consistently produce more honey. as i think it was suttonman said in a post way back, when you look at the bees crawling away from the hives, how many do you see with worn out wings nowadays, not many if any, so did the wings get tougher?? or are the bees dying younger than they did before, the longer you can get them to live the more honey you can make, in my biased opinion.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Treatment Threshold for Nosema A. or C.

    seems to bee a similar discussion going on on bee-l i copied part of a couple of threads below, one from jerry bromenshank(sp) who authored the paper on n.c. and the virus that may cause ccd and randy oliver who is now thinking that it is a bigger problem. but there are many others posting about n.c. over there.

    http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...F=&S=&P=117017

    I've discussed the possible interaction of Nosema and virus with Higes in
    Spain, and he agrees, that the presence of viruses may be a factor in
    explaining why sometimes Nosema levels are high, and bees appear to be fine, and
    at other times, even with low levels of Nosema, bees are impacted.

    http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/w...F=&S=&P=122628
    >
    > >If you assume that Nosema by itself OR in combination of Nosema with one
    > or more viruses is not a problem, and if you don't monitor and take steps
    > to try to control Nosema, our opinion is that your bees are at risk.




    I haven't seen much problem with nosema in my operation, except when we add
    a virus inoculum, then the colonies crash. I'm in the middle of an
    in-depth discussion of this phenomenon in my current series in ABJ, and
    will be explaining in detail over the next few months. I'm coming to
    believe that nosema is more of a problem than I previously thought.
    --
    Randy Oliver
    Grass Valley, CA
    www.ScientificBeekeeping.com
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

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