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  1. #61
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    First off, that is where the whole misunderstanding started from... no one has been buying anything from the "apiary" in question, its a bee yard, not a company...

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Let me bring it a little closer to home... what is the possibility of there being 1 shb in any of your hives? Under state code, your apiaries should be quarantined because 1 shb is considered an shb infection of enough magnitude to warrant a quarantine...

    Now do you see how silly these codes are? They are made in such a way that they can be used for control whenever it is wanted... like "loopholes"...

    Georgians, did you know that MS does not allow your bees in our state?

    Floridians, same thing question?

    Carolinians, some of your counties are banned as well...

    Integrity and responsibility are the only way to maintain a VIABLE commercial bee keeping operation...""""if we all merely followed the politicians around, they would just lead us straight to the "bee bread line""""" (a quote from my father)...
    Last edited by rrussell6870; 10-11-2011 at 03:36 PM.

  4. #63
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    One case of AFB in an operation of thousands is inconsequential. I would rather know whether the beekeeper knows what he is doing.

    I would like to know more about what the OPer asked the Apiary Inspector and what the Apiary Inspector said. Verbatum, word for word. I bet there is plenty of misunderstanding going on here.

    How many of y'all are members of AFB Anaymous? Hi, I'm Mark. I'm a beekeeper. I have had AFB. Hi, Mark. Welcome to the club.

    If you are a beekeeper, you either have had AFB or you will have AFB or you have and will be treating your colonies w/ TM and/or Tylosin.

    There are two commonalities that one can say about beekeepers. A beekeeper is someone who either has a bad back or will have a bad back. The same is true w/ AFB.

    Get over the stigma. Learn about it and how to handle having it. Varroa is worse. Did the OPer ask the Inspector about Varroa presence in Russel Cols?
    Mark Berninghausen

  5. #64
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Broke-T View Post
    If you are about to purchase hives of bees from someone and call the state apiarist to get the disease status of that beekeeper, would you want them to not tell you they were quarentined for AFB?

    Johnny
    The quarantining of one dairy cow does not mean the milk doesn't get picked up. Russel Apiaries wasn't quarantined. One of Russel's apiaries was quarantined. And probably actually only a small number of colonies in that apiary.
    Mark Berninghausen

  6. #65
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    I think it really sucks that Robert is constantly having to defend himself, as a beekeeper. I have mor to say about it but it would probably get deleted!

  7. #66
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    That is correct Mark... in post #6 I state that the yard in question had 410 colonies as defined by the state of MS code...3 colonies had afb... the state of MS requires that 2% or more of the colonies within a yard must test positive for afb before a quarantine can be issued... the inspector reported only 60 colonies were in that yard, thus the yard should have never been quarantined in the first place...

  8. #67
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    You couldn't be more correct Brac... it does suck. Lol. If it weren't for all the help of the members that step up to bring common sense back to the discussion, I would be overrun...

  9. #68

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    Dan, the thread has gotten rather long, so its understandable that you missed it, but the answer to your question is in post #6... we had requested inspection in November 2010 to be done in early Feb, 2011...
    Actually I saw this but still didn’t understand why you requested an inspection for this particular yard.
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    There are two commonalities that one can say about beekeepers. A beekeeper is someone who either has a bad back or will have a bad back. The same is true w/ AFB.
    No argument there.
    If I had a beeyard a mile from Mr Russell's and ended up with an AFB outbreak as a result and discovered that the local inspector knew about it but kept it secret....I'd be pis.....unhappy.
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Learn about it and how to handle having it.
    Kerosene and matches.

    I have no doubt that Russell apiaries are a well run operation. I wouldn't have any reluctance about buying bees or queens from him. I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just trying to sort through this for my own understanding.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  10. #69
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    I second Mark's request for the OPer to come public with what was asked and what the government employee responded with... a word for word "best you can remember" is good enough...

  11. #70
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Dan, because I prefer them to inspect every location... the afb was well bellow the healthy yard requirements...

    The answer to the rest of you questions are within the thread... I know, I know, its too darn long to go through it all, and I understand completely, that's why I don't care to go back through it all to find it all and copy it all. Lol.

  12. #71
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post

    No argument there.
    If I had a beeyard a mile from Mr Russell's and ended up with an AFB outbreak as a result and discovered that the local inspector knew about it but kept it secret....I'd be pis.....unhappy.
    And how would you determine the source of infection in your bee hive? Just because someone has AFB and then you find a case in your near by apiary doesn't mean that's the source.

    In NY, Apairy Inspectors who find a case, or cases, of AFB in an Apiary do not automatically notify beekeepers w/ neighboring apiaries. Though, there have been cases where neighboring apiaries get inspected when AFB is found. Though I never was involved in such a thing. Mostly we were told to inspect every apairy in each Township. Annually, if possible.
    Mark Berninghausen

  13. #72
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Russell you don't have to continue to defend yourself against such unfounded accusations. Really it borders on malicious gossip, without facts. It's unfortunate it had to end up as a forum post. You know the truth about what happened and that's all that really matters. Sleep well tonight, and continue your good work in promoting beekeeping. Sorry moderator, but stuff like this really has no place in an open forum. Guilty until proven innocent? How about the other way around. Things like this are upsetting to those with integrity enough to take to set the record straight.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  14. #73
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    Sorry moderator, but stuff like this really has no place in an open forum.

    [snip]

    Things like this are upsetting to those with integrity enough to take to set the record straight.
    I disagree. I have no reason to doubt that the OP was truthful. Setting the record straight is what this thread has come to, as it should. The story has become much fuller with added information now available. We can all decided what to do with it at this point. Being visible on a public forum cuts both ways. Best to address it head on as Robert has done.
    Regards, Barry

  15. #74

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    And how would you determine the source of infection in your bee hive?
    I wouldn't be able to determine the source. Having said that, if I knew that an apiary near one of my beeyards had afb symptoms I would be extra attentive to my yard. I'm not looking for an argument. I'm only saying that I'm not sure that 'confidentiality' in these matters is the best course.
    In Mr Russell's case, it surely is unreasonable for the apiary inspector to taint his entire operation because of a few hives in a single yard.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  16. #75
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    There is always so much more for me to learn. And then I remember I've been keeping fish since 1983, and I am still learning, and diseases mutate, and things twist and turn around....

    Which is of course, the fun. Not saying AFB is fun, and I would surely cry if I had to torch a hive over it, but I would also torch the hive and have done. So maybe one of you knowledgeable people should start a thread that covers afb in its milder, treatable form, and where the line is when kerosene should be applied.

    Thank you, I know it's got to be torture for Mr. Russell, but it is also a series of realities that any of us could have to deal with - got drama (crooked inspectors), more drama (potential for bee-death),
    you know what I think this thread beat CSI out...

    Gypsi
    Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, flood and strange weather. The bees are still alive.

  17. #76
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Proximity to AFB, does not necessarily mean you will get AFB. 2 years ago a neighbor of mine less than 1/4 from my home yard, had 2 hives out of 4 that had bad AFB infections, both were robbed out, I can only guess that my bees took part in the robbing. I took it on myself to not move hives from to home yard to other yards for a year, but had no trouble.
    As Russell said the spore is in all hives, I had been in the neighbors hives with him a few months before, and pointed out that he had really bad mites and DWV, he decided not to treat because he didn't want to pull the honey. So instead 2 months later the honey (over 100 pounds per hive) was robbed out and the hives had to be burned. Anyway the point of this is it had no effect on my strong healthy bees less than 1/4 mile away.

  18. #77
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    The original post was erroneous in that it led one to believe that all of Russell Apiaries was under quarantine. As moderator it would have been appropriate to ask the original poster to provide specific facts to support that statement. Instead, Mr. Russell was forced into having to defend himself to set the record straight. Sorry but for me that's yellow journalism at its finest. Let me give an example.."Barry last night I spoke with your next door neighbor and he told me you beat your kids every night"...(no offense Barry) but I am now forcing you to dispute what I have put fourth.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  19. #78

    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    accusations
    From what I can tell there was only one accusation....in the original post. Frankly, I'd think Mr Russell appreciates knowing that he has a problem with the inspector.
    I couldn't see why he had a yard inspected that he didn't plan to sell bees from. I was trying to understand the process....no accusation there.
    I was also concerned with the idea of confidentiality in these inspections. Again...no accusation.
    Mr Russell has patiently taken the time to answer everyones' questions and continued to add to his goodwill on these forums.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  20. #79
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    In Mr Russell's case, it surely is unreasonable for the apiary inspector to taint his entire operation because of a few hives in a single yard.
    I think that this is the biggest issue with the whole thing... he was told directly that this yard does not produce any queens, nucs, packages, or even splits that would leave the yard... it was strictly for testing purposes... so it really boils down to what he said... did he say that Russell Apiaries is under quarantine, or did he say "sir, to my knowledge, the only location that Russell Apiaries runs within my jurisdiction is not a production yard, but rather a study yard, and is quarantined by Russell Apiaries as well as the state... but to my knowledge, they conduct their operations with responsible practices"?

    The customer that ordered 60 nucs from me told a staff member that the government employee told him that Russell bees have afb, but if you need nucs...

    You see where the issue comes into play...

    Personally, I do not mind it being a public debate... just so long as the statements are not misleading... in the original thread that was deleted the OP said "shame on you for knowingly contaminating the hives of your customers" a false statement on many levels and one that leads me to be even more concerned about just what this person was told by the government employee... obviously, the government employee did not educate the caller about afb at all...

  21. #80
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    Default Re: foulbrood in apiary selling bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    The original post was erroneous in that it led one to believe that all of Russell Apiaries was under quarantine.
    Point well made... even the titles of both this thread and the one that was deleted are misleading..."foulbrood in apiary selling bees" and "foulbrood in apiary selling queens"... the apiary does not nor has it ever "sold bees" or "sold queens"...

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