crazy package arrival - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    2,977

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Not trying to bust your chops or anything... Kelley is a good company and I doubt they would have sent a package out that way had they actually handled it.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Denison, Tx
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    109

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    It doesn't really matter that Kelly didn't send the package out, they sold it. That means they should make it right and take it up with the supplier. I got a package from Bweaver that had some small squares of wood stapled to the bottom of the package that puzzled me at first. Then I realized they were covering up small knots in the wood just in case one popped out.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    13,203

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by blist View Post
    Well I figured since they didn't insure it, I had no real recourse.
    Technically, you have to insure it. But the post office has to deliver the goods so if the bees escaped while they were delivering them I would say it is their fault. I am very surprised that you can get bees through the mail in a wooden crate because of the possibility of them getting loose like that. A coroplast box would make more sense to me.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #24
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by blist View Post
    though insurance may have not covered it since the package itself wasn't damaged
    I would say the package was damaged. I suspect the wood was green and dried and warped during shipment which separated in route. You can be pretty sure the hole wasn't there when the package was picked up else you would have had loose bees at the pickup point.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Riverhead,NY,USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    One of the packages I got for Gardners last month also had a knot that was falling out but luckily it didn't fall out till I banged the box down when I was installing. These packages weren't mailed, they were picked up so I bet it would have fallen out if it was sent through the mail. I understand that #3 pine is much cheaper to make packages with but it only takes a half a brain when building then that huge knots are nothing but trouble. And insured or not you should still file a report with the postmaster BEFORE you leave the P.O. And send a copy of the report to your supplier and 99% of the time you will get a replacment package. I've gone through the same thing a few years back when the screen was ripped on a package. Just another lesson learned.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake County, Indiana
    Posts
    81

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    I think there may be some confusion with postal insurance. If insurance wasn't purchased through USPS, then talking to the post office will do no good. That is why they offer insurance. Insurance covers theft, loss and damage. UPS automatically covers the first $100. If the bees were paid by credit card then a dispute can be filed with the credit card company. Blist, you are right on target, Kelley should take some responsibility here.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma
    Posts
    127

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    For any company not to allow insurance, especially that small of distance, I would not do business with them.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Galt, CA
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    I would think just from a public relations perspective, that they would Kelly's would want to take some action. Word of mouth is VERY powerful and with the economy they way it is right now. Businesses need to be ahead of the curve when it comes to "doing what is right" so they can retain, even gain customers from businesses that are not providing up to the expectations.
    While I understand that they wouldn't insure the bees part, it is a living creature being shipped through the mail after all, there should be some recourse from the shipping container being subpar. So what, next time I want to ship something that I don't want to insure, I can just put it in a box that's going to fall apart in transit? Then just take the attitude of "what should I care, I got my $."

    C2

  10. #29
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Insurance comes through the shipping company not the manufacturer or supplier. The shipping company takes on the responsibility that the packaging is up to THEIR standards. Insurance on a package tends to get better handling where as a "fragile" label means nothing. I don't know why that is.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Galt, CA
    Posts
    869

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    [QUOTE=Acebird;659948] "fragile" label means nothing.QUOTE]

    Doesn't that mean play soccer with it? I DO know "this side up" means the arrow points to the ground.

    C2

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Columbia county, New York, USA
    Posts
    1,526

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Kelly is responsible because they sold it to you.
    Postal insurance would not have made one bit of difference because the PO did not damage the package, or lose it, and it wasn't stolen. Insurance doesn't cover losses due to bad packaging anyway. The PO is never responsible for faulty and defective packaging that fails to contain the goods. So Kelly can't get off the hook simply by claiming it wasn't insured.

    It is clear that you lost an unknown number of bees in transit due to neglectful packaging.
    Kelly should arrange to send you a new package free of charge by whatever means, and they need to have a serious talk with their supplier.
    To me, being told they would 'pass along the information' is woefully inadequate in my opinion.
    Things like this will definitely make the PO stop shipping packages altogether. How will Kelly and everyone else like that result?

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Insurance doesn't cover losses due to bad packaging anyway.
    http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?session={dba75b10-8180-11e0-fb40-000000000000}&event=1&view()=c%7B05505b50-57e2-11dc-51b6-000000000000%7D&objectId=&eksObjectId=&objectType= Case&isJumpEnabled=false&isContentJumpEnabled=fals e&vendorKey=&objTitle=&versionId=6423&searchProper ties=undefined&naturalAdvance=false&allStr=&phrase Str=&anyStr=&noneStr=&keywordStr=&tTitle=&topicFro mSub=&topicsORSubUrl=&report(0000)=p{2adbb220-28a9-11e0-5c1d-000000000000}&bcobjectId={2adbb220-28a9-11e0-5c1d-000000000000}&search=insurance&topicAndSubtopic=Re ceiving Mail$ALL

    I am not sure you are correct. Read the insurance requirements. If the packaging is not adequate the PO will not accept. Once they accept it is insured.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Nueces, TX, USA
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    139

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Just to let everyone know, I contacted kelleybees and I will post what transpires on the issue.

    I was charged $29 for postage/insurance so I assume when they say they won't insure them that they mean they won't insure bees arriving alive. The bees actually arrived in one day alive and kicking, most of them just weren't there.

    Anyway, I will post here once I have an update. I own a company myself so I can objectively view both sides...I am just looking for a fair resolution on the issue.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Nueces, TX, USA
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    139

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    OK, I spoke to kelleybees... after some back and forth in email they offered to credit me $45. The order was $112 but $29 of that was shipping. The reasoning is that they are crediting me for half the cost of the package since I told them about half the bees were there. They did say they would have sent a new package if I would have refused it (I would have to pay for shipping again though). I told them that probably wouldn't have been good for the bee community. First off, the post office didn't view it as shipping damage and I think it would have given them a grudge about dealing with bees if I just told them I'm not accepting it and left them with bees flying all over the place. Not to mention the poor remaining bees.

    I explained to kelleybees that I didn't know if exactly half the bees were gone or not as I didn't weigh them. I took a guess by looking (with my untrained eye). There could be just a 1/4 in there, who knows. I personally would have offered a package replacement and/or credit, however, I accepted their offer as I don't think it was completely unfair or anything. They made an effort and I will probably still do business with them in the future.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pinehurst, North Carolina, USA
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    226

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Quote Originally Posted by blist View Post
    They made an effort and I will probably still do business with them in the future.
    I would not. There are much better bee suppliers that take more pride in their work. I've had a lot of luck with smaller businesses. Just my opinion.
    ...This, and my heart, and all the Bees
    Which in the Clover dwell.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Clarkson, KY. USA
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    164

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Okay, I am just back in town and catching up on this thread. First, blist sorry you had a problem with one of our packages. More importantly how is the package doing in the hive? As all good beekeepers know, it is not the amount of bees you start with that is as important as the queen that comes with that package. It looks to me that the knot in the box gave way during shipping and I appologize for that. Contrary to the previous posters statement that thinks we drop ship from a third party, that is not the case. We do handle every package that leaves here. We turn away hundreds of customers every year that want bees shipped from us, to them, who live in zone 5 and beyond. When customers insist on having us ship them we explain that we can not insure them through USPS as they will not allow it and will not honor a claim for zones 5 and beyond. We also feel that the bees may be in the postal systems grasp for too long and we do not want the associated mortality of the bees. The poster who stated there are much better bee companies that take more pride in there work is simply misinformed. That's the kindest response I have to that. We did not get to be 87 years old by trying to take advantage of customers. Blist, it seems that you were happy with the resolution of the problem. Is that a fair statement? By the way blist you were very kind in your approach to this problem and we appreciate that. This talk from posters of demanding this and demanding that may not be the best approach when dealing with problems with any company. Everyone is human and when you approach a percieved problem with a bad attitude and demands you automatically put the person in defense mode on the other end. Remeber the saying you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar? My point being that old sayings are old for a reason, they are generally true. We are working on a way to extend our shipping reach for next year with our package bees and we may be able to cover more ground in the future.
    Thank You,
    Bsupplier

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    3,112

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    If the packaging is not adequate the PO will not accept. Once they accept it is insured.
    Dont bet on that. The person at the counter at the PO is not trained in packaging requirments. As long as the box isnt falling apart, they will accept it. Then if something breaks in transit, and you try collect insurance money, a trained postal inspector will examine the package and conclude that the packaging was inadequate.

    At least that is how it worked in my direct experience.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Reading, Michigan
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    Occasionally in my business I make concessions to an unhappy customer, it does not happen very often but it's part of doing business. The customer is always right!
    Unless their demands are unreasonable. i.e. " I want five new packages because you goofed up my whole season" That would be considered unreasonable.

    This thread now has over 1300 views, 1300!!
    If this was my customer he would have 2 new packages ASAP, 1 replacement and 1 for his troubles. Also I would contact the USPS and make apologies saying it will never happen again.

    If you think about how many people will or will not buy from this company due to this thread, I think from a business standpoint their blowing an opportunity here.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    13,203

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    My point being that old sayings are old for a reason, they are generally true.
    "The gate that squeeks the most gets the most oil." That is also an old saying...
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Clarkson, KY. USA
    Posts
    164

    Default Re: crazy package arrival

    I think I will wait to hear from the customer on the condition of the hive and how he feels he was treated and the level of satisfaction. There are unique circumstances involved in every business and every transaction. When you are dealing with agriculture and goverment agencies the rules are different. If any customer feels we did something wrong it will be handled on a case by case basis. Please remember the whole problem stems from a knot falling out of a board. I think the majority of the beekeeping community knows that the Kelley Co. is a reputable company. We sell thousands & thousands of packages a year and the amount of complaints are relativley few.

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