Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Northern Tool has free shipping on all power tools. I just got this in my mail box this morning:

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...tline=&market=

    Here is one for $30: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...8526_200328526

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  3. #22
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    Jul 2008
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    OKC, OK USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Nabber, that is an upholstery stapler, 9/16 is the largest staple that will shoot, too small to do frames.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Most people just soak the endbars...

    This is not new.
    Maybe not. Why not just use green lumber? Skip the kiln drying and just mill and assemble, cut down on the cost.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #24
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    Riverhead,NY,USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    I used a brab nailer this year cause I blew a seal in my air stapler, it worked great. As for where to buy a new air stapler I saw one in home depot that was a staple/brad nailer that was pretty cheap $49 I believe. It would probably be perfect for assembling frames. Good luck, Tim

  6. #25
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    Oct 2010
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    White Oak, Texas, USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    I will have to try soaking the frame first, I do occasionally cause a split or crack with my stapler.
    "...Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones..." Proverbs 16:24 KJV

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    I tried the 1/4 in staple on 60 frames yesterday with pretty good luck. For most of the frames I only used one staple between the two bottom board sticks and the side frame. Occasionally I would not get the staple centered and had to use another staple for the stick I didn't catch. I only had trouble with a couple of frames splitting but I have to say the quality of the wood from BetterBee is very good. the foundation I got is horrible. Many sheets were too short because they bent the wires into the first row of the wax. I don't understand why they don't keep that bend at least a 1/16 away from the wax. It is better to have the sheet too long then too short.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #27
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    Apr 2009
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    Douglas,Georgia,USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    If cost is a concern there are alot of good staplers and brad nailers in Pawn shops right now due to the down turn in the economy. Some will usually have an assortment of nails and brads with them and are usually in pretty good shape. Good Luck!
    To thine own self be true, and it must follow as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.

  9. #28
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    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    I only used one staple between the two bottom board sticks and the side frame.


    If frames are being discussed...

    The "bottom board sticks" are called Bottom Bars and the "side frame" pieces are End Bars.


    Concerning foundation:
    It is better to have the sheet too long then too short.
    If foundation is too long it would require trimming to avoid bowing.

    Trimming down wired foundation wouldn't be fun.
    Last edited by BeeCurious; 04-10-2011 at 07:08 AM. Reason: addition
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  10. #29
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    Apr 2011
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    Wausau, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    I use a Porter Cable 1/4" crown stapler and have used it for over 10 years. Not the least expensive or most expensive, but good quality I would say. I also use Titebond 3 to glue everything up before stapling.

    Someone previously said that Titebond 2 was waterproof. You may want to check on that. I thought the bottle said it was water resistant. Titebond 3 is the waterproof glue of choice for me because of this. If I get it on my fingers, it's time consuming to scrape it off, because the glue does not get soft again after drying.

    Wisnewbee

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    If foundation is too long it would require trimming to avoid bowing.
    Not so. There are two bottom bars not a groove. The sheet could be over 1/8 longer and still not stick out of the bottom. I don't glue at all. I ask the bees to do it.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #31
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    Dec 1999
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    But there are bottom bars that are solid with a groove halfway into it. When I made mine, I didn't even put the groove in, just a solid piece of wood. Since I wire may frames and use only mediums, I cut a piece of deep foundation in half which leaves the foundation about a 1/2" short of the bottom bar. Not all bottom bars are a like.
    Regards, Barry

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Not all bottom bars are a like.
    I understand that but I bought frames that have two bottom bars so the foundation can slip right through the bottom. If the foundation is to be used for both styles the wire could stop short by 1/2 inch and then you could easily trim it for grooved bottom bars. Anyways the issue is consistency. Only 5 of the sheets were too short and they were too short because the bend in the wires were into the first row of wax instead of just outside the wax like all the other sheets. It also broke off slivers of wax that ended up in sticking in the middle of the sheets that had to be picked off. Like I say the wooden parts were good quality but the foundation was slip shot.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #33
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    Apr 2011
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    Adams Co., Colorado, USA
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Tools:

    I'm a carpenter. I cringe when I hear the words "Harbor Freight." It's really a symbol for all that is wrong in a disposable Walmart culture. Sure, their stuff works ok for the occasional DIY-er.

    But I couldn't be a carpenter today if I hadn't been handed down tools from my dad, who bought quality tools. You will not hand down a $30 Chinese nail gun to your kids. Think about it. Hit a pawn shop and buy something used and decent for the same price.

    That said... I just use an 18g brad nailer (Senco), since the narrow crown stapler I want someday is $200. :P Its sole purpose is to hold the frame together til the glue dries. Which of course brings me to...

    Glue:

    That's what makes it hold together. Try using nails or staples without glue. You should be able to pull that frame apart with your hands quite easily. So what you use here just doesn't matter. You could even use a micro pinner.

    Titebond 2 vs. 3: 3 is the waterproof, yes. Not necessary for frames. But it is nice when you're working on a lot of parts at once, assembly line fashion, because it has a somewhat longer open time. I chose it for that reason only.

    If anyone is tempted to try Gorilla Glue... my advice is don't. It will bubble out of your joint kinda messy-like, and it's harder to clean. Wood glue excess just wipes off with a wet rag.



    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post

    Two things: if the wood is wetter than ambient than it will shrink as it dries. That will tend to break the glue joint.
    Actually... it will break the wood near the glue joint. It's generally pine we're talking about here... glue is stronger than pine.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Apiator View Post
    I'm a carpenter.
    Same here.

    Its sole purpose is to hold the frame together til the glue dries. Which of course brings me to...

    Glue:

    That's what makes it hold together. Try using nails or staples without glue.
    Try convincing engineers that a house put together with just glue will hold together just as well as one that uses no glue and nails only! I think your overstating the capabilities of glue in this instance. Using just glue when joining long grain to long grain is one thing, but joining end grain to long grain is quite another matter. With frames you encounter both types, so nails (used in the appropriate manner) do add additional strength. In fact, one could nail frames together in such a way that it would be stronger than any glue job, but that would be too time consuming.

    In my opinion, do both.
    Regards, Barry

  16. #35
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Yeah, what makes me cringe is hearing "the nails are just to hold the joint together until the glue dries..." Nails/glue is intended to be a redundant system. A very good system, but I've seen an awful lot of glue joints fail, for one reason or another.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    Actually... it will break the wood near the glue joint. It's generally pine we're talking about here... glue is stronger than pine.
    Yes you are correct. Which is why I don't use glue. A staple is stronger than the glue for most of the small area joints. If you take a wooden chair with perfectly milled joints and leave it outside like a bee hive it will break apart in one year. The hive doesn't because it has a thousand little workers that seal up all the cracks.

    The problem with name brand tools today is they are all made in China. My father was a carpenter for forty years and I learned from him from the age of seven. I have not only his tools but tools he was handed down. Problem is most are obsolete now. Nobody uses a miter box and back saw today. So no matter how good it is all it is today is a memory.
    I bought Porter Cable, three guns a compressor plus accessories some where near $250 if I remember right. Then I bought a framing nailer for another $200. Is it a quality name brand? I don't know it is an old name and they work good.
    Last edited by Acebird; 04-11-2011 at 08:53 AM.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    A very good system, but I've seen an awful lot of glue joints fail, for one reason or another.
    Once the glue joint fails you are held together by the nail. As long as the glue is intact the nail is not under any load hence "the nail is there until the glue cures". If the glue alone is not adequate to sustain the integrity of the joint then there is no point in using it. A wood glue joint is 100% dependant on controlling the moisture of the wood. If you cannot maintain the moisture content of the wood then don't kid yourself using a hard curing glue. You would be further ahead by using a rubberized bonding agent like GE Silicone. If that is your plan then the joints should be loose fitting not tight fitting like what I experienced with BetterBee products.
    There are many structural engineered products in the construction industry that are just held together by glues and adhesives. My concern on the use of these products would be flooding. It would be a monumental task to replace the bottom floor of a multistory building after a flood.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    You would be further ahead by using a rubberized bonding agent like GE Silicone.
    This is an original idea...

    I would consider silicone to be an average sealant but would never use it as a "bonding agent" for frame assembly.

    I don't believe new beekeepers should be encouraged to use GE, or any other silicone for woodenware assembly.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  20. #39
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    I don't believe new beekeepers should be encouraged to use GE, or any other silicone for woodenware assembly.
    If you were reading my posts I don't think they should use any bonding agent either but if you are going to glue the joints silicone will work better (for a bee hive) exposed to major swings in moisture.

    I would consider silicone to be an average sealant but would never use it as a "bonding agent" for frame assembly.
    It will glue metal, wood, glass, plastic, ceramic, concrete, paper, leather, and fabric under the most extreme conditions and doesn't degrade for a very long time. It fills gaps and for a butt joint it will not only seal the end grain it will bond to it very successfully. So what is your beef?

    Some people think outside the box.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Air Staple Gun for Foundation Frames

    For "extreme conditions" a polysulfide would be better, but I wouldn't use that inside a beehive either...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

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