Hive design, what type? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    So you have time to pipe clamp each side of a hive, but cant find the time finger joint. Ok. You say your cutting boards have not broken at the seams yet. Ok. Are these cutting boards out in the weather 24/7? Put one out there and see how it does. Having been on the receiving end of home made equipment over the last 15 years I can say one thing for certain -- most "put-together" equipment is not worth a , especially when made with rabbett-joints. Some jokers are even using green wood they cut down in their backyards, with knots the size of dinner plates. If that works for you, great. When I buy used hives like that I just transfer the bees and give the rest away. You lose a few hives to brood chill/robbing/falling apart and you realize that it is worth the extra money to buy decent equipment.
    Last edited by honeyman46408; 11-04-2010 at 09:18 AM.

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Hi, you're right of course about the time to clamp but not make the dovetail joints, but I also clamp dovetail joints. If I were making production hive bodies, the whole setup would be different, but I'm making one or two at the time as needed or I'd run out of clamps.
    And too, my wood is dry and without knots. I can't imagine anyone using green wet wood for anything except rough cut wooden bowls. Suffice to say that you must know what you're doing with wood or go down the warp and split apart learning curve in the worse kind of way. Maybe I was wrong to suggest making hive bodies and supers unless you work wood professionally.s

  4. #43
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    You are not wrong by any means. It just takes a lot of time to build these properly. If you have the time and skill, by all means go ahead. Most guys that build these are not skilled woodworkers (though they think they are) but are driven by the fact that home-made stuff is cheaper. I know a guy that makes boxes out of broken apart pallets. It costs him 40 cents a box. Works for him, but they are junk.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Works for him, but they are junk.
    And the bees don`t care
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  6. #45
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Exactly! It's all sort of like being your own dentist even though you're a plumber. Many times I opt for purchasing a particular item even though I have the ability to make one myself. There's a sign I put up in the shop that reads: "You get professional results only from a professional." So, I just can't see myself making a Tyvek suit either just because my wife has a sewing machine. I can for sure make the supers though, and the metal covered tops for about 1/4 the cost on the retail market.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    The bees do not care that they are the wrong size, so they gum the frames and build up cross-comb. They do not care about the gaping holes in the sides, but they become concerned when cold air starts blowing in and robbers are attacking them from all directions. The bees do not care about the old pallett walls (they find them kind of rustic and charming) but I do when I buy some hives, and not only do they not fit on my boxes, but the bees escape from the holes when I am driving them home, and then the box falls apart when I unload it. The bees do not care, but I do. I like them to make it through the winter.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Threads in Forum : How to Start Beekeeping

    R we missing something here most people that read this forum are starting out not BIG time beekeepers, that will come later along with a lot of mistakes.
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  9. #48
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    annap, md
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    I would recommend to anyone interested in making your own supers is to decide on which size supers you want to deal with and make the joints box cut joints. These box cut joints can be made easily on any table saw with a dado blade. I would also just used whatever species of wood that is readily available in your area. 1 inch stock is best, but 3/4 stock workd just as good. Keep your designs and work as simple as possible as you will find more enjoyment after you have made your own equipment and raised your own bees!!!!

  10. #49
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    To answer your question, I suggest going with all one type of super. I am getting rid of all my deeps and going to use all 10 frame medium supers.
    I have already taken my nucs (4) and cut them down to where they will accept medium frames.
    Makes it much easier to figure out how much of what type of equipment, as well as easier when you go out to the hives and need to add or move things around.

  11. #50
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    In my humble opinion, I think box joints are the best. I have rabbit joints on some boxes that are warping and pulling apart. They were glued with Titebond III and nailed. I attribute it to the very wet spring we had.
    With the jig in this video, box joints are much easier now. The plans are $12.00. It takes medium skill to build and Matt will help you if you have questions. I am in the process of building it now. Since I am a woodworker and own a small, well equiped shop, I feel compelled to build the best boxes possible that will last as long as possible. That's just my experience, and my opinion, for what it's worth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuFHurrWswQ

    I would recommend a good contractor saw but a cabinet saw is the best since the jig is heavy and needs the 3/4 X 3/8 guidebar.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbore View Post
    for a beginner I would advise langstroth hives over top bar hives. I think they are easier to manipulate without damaging the comb. ...
    again consider age, health, strength, and access to the hives (shallow =35 lbs, med = 50 lbs, deeps = 90 lbs).
    What I ended up doing was building a one-story hive similar to a top bar, that I can use lang frames in. My advancing age loves it.
    So many weeds.......so little time.

  13. #52
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    Wink Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    It's interesting that one of the best features of top bar hive beekeeping - the all natural, made BY bees, FOR bees, beeswax that they're known for, is also one of the most commonly mentioned disadvantages.

    But think, folks - how difficult is it, really - to manage a piece of honeycomb? If you want to be able to set it on the ground, and/or rest it against the side of a box, well, okay - that won't work well, but there just isn't any need for that in a top bar hive, as you can always just set it back into the hive, or rest it upside down on its little head!

    You might enjoy this exasperated little video I made one day to show people just how easy it is - to handle the natural honeycomb that you find inside a top bar hive: http://bit.ly/eAwWlt

    No disrespect to anyone, but I think natural wax made without the use of foundation is crucial to the bees' health... and part of natural wax is that natural shape that they make it in.

    :-)
    -- Christy Hemenway
    GOLD STAR HONEYBEES
    207-449-1121
    www.goldstarhoneybees.com

  14. #53
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Trying to stray back to the topic...

    I am a fresh beekeeper, with only one hive at the moment.

    I was really keen on using TBH's and have built a couple that are standing ready. But I figured that I wanted standard equipment for my first hive. I figure I will need some advice, as I know of no beeks in my area with TBH's, it's easier to stay with the beaten track at first.

    For next year, the plan is to buy 2-3 hives from a retiring beek. They are in standard hives.

    I have also made a "long-lang" like Dragonfly. It should work as something inbetween.

    My guess is that I will end up with two standard cubes, one "long-lang" and two TBH's next year. After a season or three I figure I have the knowledge and feel for what to go for in the future.

    BTW: I will also experiment with foundationless standard-frames(With starter strips).
    BTW2: I have no plan on buying an extractor. I will not rule it out in the future, but why use a lot of money to buy it if you don't need it?

  15. #54
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Good comments on Langs and TBHs. Has anyone any experience with Warre hives? They appeal to me for some reason, even though I am just beginning to do the research on beekeeping in general, and haven't any hives - yet. Apparently there are two variants on teh Warre's - Top bar and frames (aka Modified Warre).

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Hive design, what type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglerock View Post
    I like the standard 10 frame. I think most like the finger cut or finger-lock corners the most. Does anyone like Rabbeted Hive Bodies rather than the finger-lock corners?

    Still trying to work on making my own hives, but having problems with the handles.
    During your first year, you might consider making a few, bang-together boxes just to get started, but the Finger Box Joint is vastly prefered due to it's strength and longevity when exposed to the weather for several years.

    It is hands-down, slam dunk a better joint. My hive bodies have proven it beyond any shred of a doubt. One rolled down a steep hill. The bees were P.O.'d, but they survived and so did the box. The nuc' box that sat on top also went down the hill. It was butt-jointed and it blew apart, even though it was lighter, did not fall as far, and did not land in the rocks like the FBJ box.

    Another one fell off a trailer and skidded / tumbled 150 feet on the freeway, from 55 mph down to stopped. I still use it. I did add in a wedge in one corner to replace the part that was lost to excessive friction, but the joints held and the box is still square.

    A farmer's wife ran over one of my hives with a truck. I replaced the 1 damaged side and put it back into use.

    My mentor, now a 44 year beekeeper, dipped his hives in 50% boiled linseed oil and 50% mineral spirit back in 1973 and retired the boxes in 2013. 40 years ain't too bad. The joints were mostly still good. The end grain had very few cracks in them because the oils drawn in back in 1973 appear to have protected them almost all along.

    The only other joint I use is the lockmiter joint, but it takes a very precise setup, including a planer and a shaper or a powerful router table to get it right. It saves a lot of time over finger box joints if you can make them correctly. I do not yet have longevity data on them - I'll report back in 40 years, If I'm still around. So far (= coming up on 1 year), they are doing quite well out in the weather.
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 06-16-2017 at 11:00 PM.

  17. #56
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    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adnyb View Post
    Good comments on Langs and TBHs. Has anyone any experience with Warre hives? They appeal to me for some reason, even though I am just beginning to do the research on beekeeping in general, and haven't any hives - yet. Apparently there are two variants on teh Warre's - Top bar and frames (aka Modified Warre).
    I've worked with Langstroths all the way back to my teenage years helping my grandfather, but Warre hives appealed to me as well. I never wanted to have it be my primary hive type, but I wanted to experiment with it. A couple of years ago I cut out all the material for Warre but didn't assemble it. This year I finally put it together and established a colony.

    If you are thinking of doing a Warre, my first recommendation to you would be to download Abbe Warre's book Beekeeping for All and read it.

    In many states in the US agricultural regulations require beehives to have removable frames (because there are significant advantages to frames for inspection and disease control). If you live in one of those states (I do) then the decision to use a modified Warre has been made for you.

    The biggest disadvantage is that nothing in your Warre will be interchangeable with other bee keepers. You will probably have to build at least some or all of your own gear, but Warre actually intended that his hive be easy to construct. There have been innovative solutions to adapt nuc boxes to a Warre stack. Some beekeepers use the Warre box inside dimensions but make them Langstroth depths so they can more easily modify a Langstroth frame to fit.

    Make sure you visit the Warre forum below and have a good look at the successes and challenges as you make your decision.

    All I can say is the jury is still out for me, I'm guessing I'll continue to use my one Warre and probably will not add another.
    Zone 5B

  18. #57

    Default Re: h) Hive design, what type?

    Here in Tropical Cambodia it is very humid. I make a 13 frame Lang dimension hive with vents and shutters front and back and a closeable entrance on 4 corners ( not shown in Pic ).
    I have a division board and vertical excluder if I want to use it as a cloake board cell builder or for 2 nucs.
    I am also making supers in the same configuration.
    bhive.jpg
    You can see a bigger picture here
    http://biologiccambodia.com/product/...y-hive-bees-2/

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Hive design, what type?

    It depends where. In Ukraine and Hungary quite popular is a "horn" hive design without finger joints. See http://meheszet.aspnet.hu/Hasznos.as...masirakodo.txt

    There are many YouTube videos about them. In Polish search YouTube or Google for "ul rogaty" :-)
    Last edited by jtgoral; 09-29-2018 at 07:10 PM.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Hive design, what type?

    My opinion - FWIW - is that this could have been a really good thread if it hadn't been hijacked by so many people banging-on about finger joints and the relative merits of 8-frame vs 10 frame Langstroth boxes ...

    'Hive Designs' - there are LOTS of designs 'out there' to choose from - Warre, Bienenkiste, Dadant, A-Z, Layens, KTBH, Tanzanian, Tabuzi - just to name a few - each with their own individual good and not-so-good features.

    That 'Horn' design puzzles me - how are those boxes fitted together without squashing bees ? Must say that I do like my vertical boxes to have flat tops and bottoms so that they can be slid/semi-rotated into position ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Hive design, what type?

    Horns are just to align boxes. Horn hives squash as many bees as any other type of hive. They are just DIY friendly. From videos I watched it looks like they use only screws without any glue.
    My opinion is that the best hive for a backyard beekeeper is a Dartington hive type designed around frames common in your country

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