Bulk honey prices and market outlook - Page 60
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  1. #1181
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by clyderoad View Post
    not good. the reverberations of these prices will be felt by everyone who produces and sells their honey both bulk and direct to consumer
    and this whole new bee equipment sector that's expanded so in the last 5-10 years..
    Canadian or US $ ?
    $0.63 Canadian

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  3. #1182
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    Holland, MI
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    So converted to US is that .49$!$!!?

  4. #1183
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    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by swarm_trapper View Post
    So converted to US is that .49$!$!!?
    Initial payment BeeMaid is a packing cooperative

  5. #1184
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    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    For my American friends, even though BeeMaid is a packing Co-operative the members have never gotten the packer's cut. Typically they get more or less the "going rate" for honey. Members deliver their honey in bulk contaniers in one end , out the other comes the consummer pack but the beekeepers never get that margin that a typical packer keeps for himself. All other packers are for profit but Beemaid pays it's members more or less what other packers pay. Somehow the members never get a cut for being a packer. I don't understand why the members put up with that. Maybe one of the memebers can shed some light on this.

    Jean-Marc

  6. #1185
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    ....

    18m lbs 100% CND packed BeeMaid honey competing against Giants in the food industry who use off shore product to tighten margins..., BeeMaid quality and pure product has been a huge asset in holding retailers and holding shelf price steady. Nothing to snub your nose at Jean Marc, my returns over the years are adequate.

    i don't understand how Beekeepers sell to brokers who represent their product on the shelf blended with foreign product. We work too hard to have our honey cut with crap
    Last edited by Ian; 08-06-2016 at 09:44 AM.

  7. #1186
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    Jul 2014
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    Tulcea, Romania
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    108

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Here we have prices that starts from 0,68 $ /lbs and up to 1 $ /lbs . Not counting that we have small crops ( 40-50 kg on average in good years ) and we can't keep to many hives
    ( small country ) but the prices are the same ! . On the shelf we see the same prices that were two years ago ( our VAT has decreased , taxes in general ) but the bulk honey has dropped very sharp . On the shelt we have mixed honey ( not monofloral variety ) with a price that start from 2,3 $ /lbs and up to 3 $ /lbs . And this are the small prices . When we are speaking about black locust honey ...bulk price and shelf price are ridiculous different .
    The problem is with controling the source of honey and testing shelf products by authorityes .
    We are makng as country around 20000 To and importing as well from China/Argentina around 3500 To ...for what ? . The answer ? " to have the same quality for the whole year . Like our honey is not good �� .
    The solution ! Pack our self as much as we can and sell the rest to packers when the prices are higher . Different contryes , same problems ! .

  8. #1187
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Ian, I just spent a bunch of time replying to you, but somehow I got time out. This time I will be briefer.

    Who cares if Beemaid sells 18 000 000 pounds? They are basically giving it away and then some. I think we can agree that $1.20/lb is below the cost of production. At $1.20/lb, there will be a whole bunch of for sale signs soon or foreclosure signs. Who wants customers that do not desire your financial well being? Take Costco for example. Somehow Beemaid feels that they have to keep this customer at all costs. Costco dictates price, Beemaid agrees. Costco tells them, we no longer wish to have Beemaid honey on our shelves, we want Kirkland Honey on our shelves (Costco Brand). So now the only thing Beemaid had, which is their name, they gave up. Costco is now in a position to turn around and find honey from anywhere else.

    Prices are holding steady on the shelf so either the packer is getting some of that or the retailer is, because it is not the beekeeper. I think we can agree that everybody needs to make some money along the way from beehive to store shelf. Consummers need to have insurances that they are buying pure honey. Beekeepers need to have some incentive to produce.

    Returns may have been good in the past, but they were for all beekeepers based on pretty good prices in the last 5 years. However Ian and all the Beemaid members never got a cut for also being the packer. I considered being a member but I would want a cut for being a packer. Historically that has never happened.

    I think we can all agree that nobody wants their product adulterated in order that a packer can cheat us out of our money. Are you implying that foreign honey is crap? I think the Australians, Argentinian's, New Zealanders might take offence to this. The real issue and I think we can agree on this, is the so called Chinese honey, that is extracted at high moisture then stretched with other sweeteners, transhipped to avoid duties that is killing us. Some people in the industry are involved in food fraud, and we the beekeepers are paying for it.

    Jean-Marc

  9. #1188
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    Jun 2016
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    Tofield, Alberta, Canada
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    41

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I think you have it all wrong Jean Marc.

    Packers like billy bee are the ones driving prices down, when producers call and can't even get a price, but yet Chinese and Argentine honey is finding its way in the door, somethings wrong.
    BEEMAID has paid a competitive price for a number of years, and although they aren't paying out huge profits to beekeepers in the for of packing profits, there is benefits like not having to buy drums, freight allowance, being able to ship any amount l, not just full loads. Oh, and also, members are getting paid this year. For those of us without deep pockets, sitting on a crop(or two or three) isn't an option. Bees gotta eat.
    Before you start putting down the Co-op, remember that we as members get to see the books every year, and know exactly where the $$ come and go.

  10. #1189
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    Dawson Creek, BC, Canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    As a new beekeeper, shipping to the coop is easy, and hassle free. I have wondered for several years why the coop cant beat a "for profit" packer for price. The member drums, and partial loads are of value to me, but it seems like the bottling line and Bee Supply Store, are nothing more than job creation.

  11. #1190
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Maybee

    I don't think I have it wrong, even broken clocks are right 2 times a day. I agree about Billy Bee ot helping the situation. China is the big culprit in my books. It has to be sanctionned by the government.We don't hear of any executions of honey transhippers orthose whorun the "honey factories"

    If use your logic then by extension the Canadians in the American's beekeeper's eyes are also driving the price of honey down. Do you think of yourself that way? Probably not.

    My biggest criticism of BeeMaid and I think it is a valid one is not that they do not pay "huge profits for the packing side of things", it is that they do not pay for any profits on the packing profits.

    I understand that there is some value to not having to shell out cash for barrels, and the ability to ship any amont of honey, nor do you have to invest time in selling your crop. That last point in my humble opinion is the single biggest failure of our industry, myself included. Generally speaking our industry over the last 150 years has not invested enough time and money to promote our products.

    Sharpdog: The simple answer to your question is, the Co-op is top heavy.

    Jean-Marc

  12. #1191
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    Dec 2013
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    Arras, British Columbia, Canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    Maybee

    I don't think I have it wrong, even broken clocks are right 2 times a day. I agree about Billy Bee ot helping the situation. China is the big culprit in my books. It has to be sanctionned by the government.We don't hear of any executions of honey transhippers orthose whorun the "honey factories"

    If use your logic then by extension the Canadians in the American's beekeeper's eyes are also driving the price of honey down. Do you think of yourself that way? Probably not.

    My biggest criticism of BeeMaid and I think it is a valid one is not that they do not pay "huge profits for the packing side of things", it is that they do not pay for any profits on the packing profits.

    I understand that there is some value to not having to shell out cash for barrels, and the ability to ship any amont of honey, nor do you have to invest time in selling your crop. That last point in my humble opinion is the single biggest failure of our industry, myself included. Generally speaking our industry over the last 150 years has not invested enough time and money to promote our products.

    Sharpdog: The simple answer to your question is, the Co-op is top heavy.

    Jean-Marc
    Jean Marc,
    You offer up some fair criticisms of BeeMaid. I think however that it is a work in progress. I will defend the cooperative quite strongly. Other folks have offered some reasons for being members of the cooperative. Realistically Jean Marc, change comes from within. If you see problems with the cooperative, join and help make it better. You have very good business acumen and I am sure you could get elected as a board member. I see very good initiatives out of BeeMaid as well as inefficiencies that should be corrected. The bottling line is slow and in my opinion not optimized in Spruce Grove at least. There is also no cushions built in for breakdowns, so if one part of the line fails it all shuts down. I also think there is too much labor on the bottling line.
    I also feel that I have been paid a fair price for my honey and the 'pooled' marketing while not letting me catch the peaks on the market also protects me from the valleys. I think we are stronger as a cooperative. I think that this allows me to focus on production since I have to spend no time on marketing, shipping, packaging, quality control (lab). There is also the point of the underlying equity within the cooperative. The land, building and equipment as well as the brand, injection molding, and infrastructure. These are not accounted for on the balance sheet and do hold value to the members that 'could' be realized if the board of directors was so inclined. I would say that the Alberta honey Producers, and the Manitoba Honey Producers are not very good at explaining or even understanding what they really have.
    A quick scenario would be 'what if' Billy Bee made a cash offer for Bee Maid? Who would realize those gains? I would assume that it would be based on my revolving equity with the coop. So it this equity worth face value? Or more? Or less?

    My opinion based on my personal analysis is that Bee Maid is inherently misunderstood by its members and because of this it is also inherently undervalued by it's members as well as non-members. Bee Maid needs to take steps to become more transparent and perhaps realize some of it's inherent value for it's members.

  13. #1192
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Top heavy , yes, typical cooperative

    Few years ago they were off their final price by .15 cents. Lots of larger producers resigned their contracts. This year there is a list of many of those producers wanting back.

    Packing 100% Canadian honey is a hard mandate to follow but a good one. My point about 18m lbs is that BeeMaid is a small player. Perhaps the most progressive direction would be to start blending, increase volumes and gain larger market share. I stand at the opinion that I'm feel returns are adequate, and the corp leads advantages to my farm production logistics.

    Other than that, why are non members so vocal against the cooperative. Our influence on world pricing is negligible.

  14. #1193
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    May 2014
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    Wetaskiwin, Alberta, Canada
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    72

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Top heavy , yes, typical cooperative

    Few years ago they were off their final price by .15 cents. Lots of larger producers resigned their contracts. This year there is a list of many of those producers wanting back.

    Packing 100% Canadian honey is a hard mandate to follow but a good one. My point about 18m lbs is that BeeMaid is a small player. Perhaps the most progressive direction would be to start blending, increase volumes and gain larger market share. I stand at the opinion that I'm feel returns are adequate, and the corp leads advantages to my farm production logistics.

    Other than that, why are non members so vocal against the cooperative. Our influence on world pricing is negligible.
    15 cents or 0.15 cents? That's a difference of $80 a load vs. $8000. Hardly seems worth it in the first case. Personally, I don't see the point of burning bridges with any honey buyer as some have recently done. Either do business or not. It seems very strange to badmouth McCormick out of one corner of your mouth and beg for them to buy your honey out of the other. From their perspective, isn't it logical that they are going to buy from beekeepers with whom they have long term past contracts? Not ones who are jumping in for a year (perhaps out of desperation) and will be gone the next? It works both ways. I haven't sold to US packers before, so sure, I'm annoyed that they won't buy, but I'm not surprised. I prefer to keep my options open, so I dutifully fill a 1 load contract to Beemaid even if the price is a few cents off.

  15. #1194
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    Apr 2010
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    Saskatoon, SK , Canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Sorry but, Beemaid only works for small producers that can't make up a full load to ship. If you are a big producer with Beemaid your throwing money away. At these prices can a Beemaid member stockpile honey and wait for better prices? I know I will only sell what I need to until price goes up. I maybe sitting on 10 or more loads by then. That alone is a no brainer. Marketing my own crop is worth just as much as trying to produce it. Also holding back 5 percent of crop for five years as a coop member alone makes it not worth it. For me that would be hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting with them, that I could use.

  16. #1195
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    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    Maybee

    I don't think I have it wrong, even broken clocks are right 2 times a day. I agree about Billy Bee ot helping the situation. China is the big culprit in my books. It has to be sanctionned by the government.We don't hear of any executions of honey transhippers orthose whorun the "honey factories"

    If use your logic then by extension the Canadians in the American's beekeeper's eyes are also driving the price of honey down. Do you think of yourself that way? Probably not.

    My biggest criticism of BeeMaid and I think it is a valid one is not that they do not pay "huge profits for the packing side of things", it is that they do not pay for any profits on the packing profits.

    I understand that there is some value to not having to shell out cash for barrels, and the ability to ship any amont of honey, nor do you have to invest time in selling your crop. That last point in my humble opinion is the single biggest failure of our industry, myself included. Generally speaking our industry over the last 150 years has not invested enough time and money to promote our products.

    Sharpdog: The simple answer to your question is, the Co-op is top heavy.

    Jean-Marc
    Jean-Marc
    Your exactly right. Same thing here with SueBee. I have many friends who are sue members but I cannot see and advantage to being a member. For one they retain a percentage of your crop for operating capitol, you are paid over a,period of time and get final payment about a year after delivery. And its about the same amount you could have gotten from Dutch Gold and oaid in 30 days(Im not sure why any of us,should not be paid on delivery...we oay for gas groceries ect when we get them). But to top it all off they import honey. Even got caught IMPORTING CHINESE HONEY. What the F? Where are the profits going from the cheap chinese honey? Where is the packet profit? A few years (2001) ago they were selling 12 oz bears for .83 to Kroger. When at the Wisconsin meeting Wally of honey acres asked me why the price if honey had dropped to below a dollar I replied sue was trying to regain their market share. Sue directors at the meeting got mad, on M9nday morning I gad calls from AFB oresident, NHB (i was at the meeting representung the NHB but removed my "nhb and abf director hat" and spoke as Rick Sutton personal opinion. Some years later at the ABF meeting in Louisville a sue directir told me my figures were correct but they did not want their members to know. BUT MY BIG QUESTION IS WHY IN THE HELL US A BEEKEEPERS COOP IMPORTING CHiNESE so called honey? Where is the packers profit going and the profit off the chinses crap? S9meobe has their head in the sand if you think beekeepers are getting the best bang for their honey

  17. #1196
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    ***** ***** *****
    ^
    Rhymes with hitch

  18. #1197
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Lets cut to the chase. The current world market situation has nothing to do with what either Bee Maid or Sue Bee are doing now and certainly not something that happened 15 years ago. I would encourage everyone to read Norberto Garcia's excellent data rich article in the August ABJ.
    After crunching all the relevant data on world hive numbers, world consumption and world import and export figures he came to the following conclusion that most of us have suspected for some time.

    ".....the current drop in honey prices cannot be attributed to a global increase in beehive numbers nor to a decrease in the demand of the product.
    In contrast, the enormous and difficult-to-justify increase of honey exports from several countries in Eastern Europe and Asia, combined with the information coming from official surveys and private laboratories on the prevalence of adulteration of honey, allow one to conclude that fraud mechanisms are responsible for the injection of a very important volume of cheap 'manufactured' and diluted honeys to the market.. The use of adulteration by various means become the method by which circumvention can be disguised and market share is increased."

    In short what is currently happening is a massive food fraud.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #1198
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Maybe it's time we start taking honey off store shelves, and testing for this fraud ourselves. We may have to do this. There is no action from government. Kraft got sued 5 mil. for 5% filler in their parmesan cheese. A few lawsuits may put the brakes on this, or make these crooks think twice about what they are doing.

  20. #1199
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Ok so lets say we do that. We test for fraud, then what?

  21. #1200
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    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Packers have been caught with their pants down before. All it amounts to is a slap on the hands then back to business as usual

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