Natural Beekeeping - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLSEYE BILL View Post
    ... there are no absolutes in beekeeping.
    I agree with this part of your statement, therefore I wrote " a 99.9 percent guarantee "

    And again - my statement for the Natural beekeeping approach. I do not have problems
    similar to CCD - this is unnatural behavior of the bees, as a response for the unnatural beekeeping practice.

    Boris

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanover Honey View Post
    Meat is 100% pure but it will go rancid even if you keep it in the fridge.
    My statement is for specific use ONLY (for the picture #6)- not in general: "keep it in the frige" and so on.

    Boris

  4. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    My statement is for specific use ONLY (for the picture #6)- not in general: "keep it in the frige" and so on.

    Boris
    What?

    My comment was about pure vs. rancid. One does not have anything to do with the other. Your coment that sunflower oil does not get rancid BECAUSE it is pure is wrong!

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boris View Post
    Hummingberd,
    The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera) explains my statement: worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees).

    Boris
    Sorry Boris. I forgot to add that they were bringing in pollen. I was thinking it but forgot to type it... I don't use chemicals, and never have. I lean toward the natural beekeeping practices. I did have to feed sugar syrup, because my colony came as a package, but I was able to use organic sugar. Does that count? I gave them the frames left over from the previous colony, but it wasn't enough to sustain them through till the first honey flow.
    Let's BEE friends

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hummingberd View Post
    I did have to feed sugar syrup, because my colony came as a package, but I was able to use organic sugar. Does that count?
    Hummingberd,

    1. As you can see (picture #1 from this link: http://www.beebehavior.com/packaged_bees.php ) even now I have a lot of natural honey for my new russian colonies.
    2. Did you understand my response for your question about sunflower oil? I hope you asked me specifically (as a paint for the hive body), not in general.

    P.S. I prefer sunflower oil from Argentina:
    http://www.transnationalfoods.com/oils_specs.html
    You can store this oil for many years without any problems and without freezer.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 05-03-2008 at 06:52 PM.

  7. #46
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    > New "Queenless hives " is a nonsense!

    No, Boris... not nonsense at all.
    It is a statistical certainty.

    There is a certain percentage of new packages or splits
    that will reject their queen for no apparent reason at all.
    Most in the first week or two.

    Maybe she gets wounded in the act of releasing her, I dunno.

    Maybe she's a dud, and the bees figure it out. Maybe she was
    not properly mated. Who knows?

    But they will try to supersede her and fail, or she will die of her
    wounds, or whatever, but the colony will go queenless.

    But you just can't see this kind of stuff in a normal lifetime if you
    only have a few hives. When you have hundreds or thousands,
    and get roped into helping buddies who also have hundreds or
    thousands, you quickly gain experience that would equal several
    lifetimes of keeping any number of hives under 50.

    There are a few things that can be stated as flat statements,
    but the majority of things one might say are most often instantly
    "refuted" by someone who saw an exception to the rule of thumb.
    This is why a good grounding in basic bee biology and behavior
    is so important, as it allows one to understand the "usual" and
    contrast it with the "unusual".

    What was it Pooh said?
    "You never can tell with bees"

  8. #47
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    I agree with this part of your statement, therefore I wrote " a 99.9 percent guarantee " -Boris
    The problem here is that you keep repeating that "99.9 percent" figure. From my experiences, I highly doubt that such certainty exists. The posts of others (Jim Fischer, hummingberd, BULLSEYE BILL) seem to confirm my deductions.

    In fact, I suspect that workers actively bringing in pollen is less about the colony being queenright than it is about a lack of pollen stores in the hive and an availability of pollen in their foraging area. In other words, queenless bees without pollen stores -- whether from a package, or if a new queen has just been introduced -- are likely to be actively gathering pollen.

    And again - my statement for the Natural beekeeping approach. I do not have problems
    similar to CCD - this is unnatural behavior of the bees, as a response for the unnatural beekeeping practice -Boris
    What part of keeping an alien species (Apis mellifera) to North America in artificial constructs (Langstroth hives) is "natural?" I dunno, the whole "natural beekeeping" thing seems like an oxymoron to me. Maybe that's just me.

    As far as comments about "natural beekeeping" and CCD, I don't know what causes CCD. If it is largely a nutritional and stress issue, then cultural practices might have an influence on whether or not a colony contracts CCD. If CCD is caused by a pathogen, "natural" beekeepers are likely to be hit just as often and just as hard as "unnatural" beekeepers with CCD.

    As I understand it, some of the beekeepers who were very outspoken about CCD being caused by "poor management" last year were hit pretty hard by CCD or something very similar this year.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieck View Post
    From my experiences...
    Could you show me please some photos related to your "...experiences..." ?

    Boris

  10. #49
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    Photos of what, Boris? Photos of bees collecting pollen? Photos of frames with pollen in the frames? What do such photos demonstrate? If I take a photo of a frame of bees (no queen visible), would you be able to tell if the hive was queenright or queenless from the picture of the frame?

    If you could make such deductions, you have information that I'd like to hear. I suspect most beekeepers would. With such canny observations, beekeepers would never need to bother looking for queens or eggs or brood.

    And, again, Boris, you're the one making the claim that active pollen gathering is a "99.9 percent guarantee" of a queenright colony. Could you show me your data, please?

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieck View Post
    Photos of what, Boris?
    Please show me:
    1. your bee yard photos
    2. your hive bodies - inside condition
    3. Spring and Autumn feeding

    Boris

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Fischer View Post
    > New "Queenless hives " is a nonsense!
    No, Boris... not nonsense at all.
    Jim, It is a nonsense, because I stated: "If the worker bees are actively bringing pollen to the hive, it's a 99.9 percent guarantee that everything is okay with the queen. The Biology of the Honey bees (Apis mellifera) explains my statement: worker bees collect the pollen and then mix it with some nectar. Such form of mixture (called beebread) is a protein-rich food used to feed the larvae (immature bees).

    For the natural beekeeping practices (!!!)a new queenless hive is a nonsense, when "worker bees are actively (!!!) bringing pollen to the hive". Especially for the spring time.

    My topic is not about Queenless hive in general and not about "chemical bandits" (I hope you remember this definition). Please try to understand this.


    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 05-01-2008 at 12:29 PM.

  13. #52
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    Am I really reading this?

    Natural beekeeping, per various beesource users, has become
    so utterly meaningless that it hardly deserves a few words about it.
    But don't let me discourage those whom have more then a few words
    to say!

  14. #53
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    Please show me:
    1. your bee yard photos -Boris
    Why? What difference does it make how my yards look? They generally look pretty similar, although they looked different when I lived in Kansas than they do here in South Dakota.

    Honestly, I don't have photos of most of my yards. I know I "should," but I rarely document my inspections in such great detail that I would have photos of each hive body from each inspection. So, that goes for "inside condition" of hive bodies, too. I'll dig up a few that I do have, but I rarely take general photos of the insides of the hives.

    Most of the photos that I have are of bees and brood on frames. Most are too limited in field-of-view to get much idea of general condition.

    As for "Spring and Autumn feeding," I can't. Simply, I don't feed. I did when I was first starting in beekeeping, but I do not now and have not for a few years. I am not a commercial beekeeper in any sense of the word, so for convenience's sake and out of my own desire not to spend money buying syrup (I know, I know, honey is worth more than syrup -- but I don't have to lay out the cash for the honey that is still in the hive, and I'm not selling honey anyway at this point), I do not feed.

    But where's your data, Boris? I've been expecting you to post how many observations of "queenless" and "queenright" new hives "actively collecting pollen" and "not actively collecting pollen" you've observed.

  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieck View Post
    ...Honestly, I don't have photos of most of my yards.
    ... So, that goes for "inside condition" of hive bodies, too. I'll dig up a few that I do have,...
    ...As for "Spring and Autumn feeding," I can't. Simply, I don't feed.
    I don't have any more questions...

    Boris

  16. #55

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    I never take pictyres of my hive. What does that make me? Maybe I don't even know what a bee is because I don't take pictures. Maybe I'll be smarter if I took pictures.

  17. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
    Am I really reading this?
    If you are, you must be as bored as I am. It's like trying to make sense with Tec. However I am impressed that one could know for certain that they only lost two or three hundred bees per hive during the winter.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  18. #57
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    Beekeepers are so quick to judge. Just listen to what another beekeepers has to say. Maybe you will learn something, maybe you wont. Take everything with a grain of salt.

    thank you Boris for your insights.
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
    Am I really reading this?

    Natural beekeeping, per various beesource users, has become
    so utterly meaningless that it hardly deserves a few words about it.
    But don't let me discourage those whom have more then a few words
    to say!
    Natural Beekeeping: Organic Approaches to Modern Apiculture (Paperback)
    by Ross Conrad (Author), Gary Paul Nabhan (Foreword) :
    http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Beekee.../dp/1933392088

    "Beekeepers face new challenges in keeping bees alive and healthy but until now there's been no holistic orientation on beekeeping. Natural Beekeeping offers up an alternative to chemical practices and delivers a program of natural hive management [to]...produce naturally resistant, healthier hives. Both novices and neo-pros receive tips on everything from genetics and breeding to pests and harvesting, with chapters coming from one who learned from world-renowned beekeeper” Charles Mraz

    About the Author
    Ross Conrad learned his craft from the late Charles Mraz, world-renowned beekeeper and founder of Champlain Valley Apiaries in Vermont. Former president of the Vermont Beekeepers Association, Conrad has written numerous articles on organic farming, natural healing, and health issues. His market-garden business supplies local stores with fruits, vegetables, and honey. Ross lives in Middlebury, Vermont.

  20. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLSEYE BILL View Post
    If you are, you must be as bored as I am. It's like trying to make sense with Tec. However I am impressed that one could know for certain that they only lost two or three hundred bees per hive during the winter.
    " ...per hive..." - Please do not modify my statements any more.

    I can see a lot of envy in your words…

    I think you missed some very important issues:
    1. Look at the thickness of my wooden bottom bodies - 1 1/2".
    2. My colonies are Russians ONLY. "Hubert D.Tubbs Apiaries in Webb, Mississippi in winter of 2000 had an opportunity to witness the Russian bees' durability thanks to a harsh winter. Of his1,500 domestic colonies, 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 didn't survive."
    Did you ever achieve a similar result?
    3. For the Spring and Autumn feeding I use ONLY natural honey and pollen instead of using high fructose corn or sugar syrups and other supplemental feeding!
    4. I do not use any chemicals.
    5. All my hives have superior ventilation.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 05-02-2008 at 08:49 AM.

  21. #60
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    =Boris;314905I can see a lot of envy in your words…

    I think you missed some very important issues:
    1. Look at the thickness of my wooden bottom bodies - 1 1/2".
    2. My colonies are Russians ONLY. "Hubert D.Tubbs Apiaries in Webb, Mississippi in winter of 2000 had an opportunity to witness the Russian bees' durability thanks to a harsh winter. Of his1,500 domestic colonies, 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 didn't survive."
    Did you ever achieve a similar result?
    3. For the Spring and Autumn feeding I use ONLY natural honey and pollen instead of using high fructose corn or sugar syrups and other supplemental feeding!
    4. I do not use any chemicals.

    Boris
    Boris, I commend you on your accomplishments, and I know that you just want to share the 'one true way', but the truth is that the writing on your tablets is not the only 'way'. You make outrageous claims of almost utter certainty and if anyone has a hard time accepting your gospel even with a fair size piece of rock salt your rail up with indignity.

    If using 1.5" thick bottoms or boxes makes all the difference in overwintering, then why are other types of feral bees surviving in those thick trees out there? They only have honey for stores to make it on.

    You must have missed that there are many of us here on this board that do not indulge in the chemical bandwagon, myself included, and we are enjoying good overwintering. My losses were in the 8% range which in my book is about as good as I can expect for not treating my hives for about five years. Sorry I can't claim two to three hundred bees per BOX as you can, but that is a number that you can not in all honesty claim nor be expected to be believed by others.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

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