Small cell queens vs queen excluder
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Yoder, CO
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    Default Small cell queens vs queen excluder

    What queen excluder's work well at keeping small cell queens out of the supers?

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  3. #2
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    Aug 2004
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    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
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    first thing, queens aren't raised in small cells like worker bee's, they are raised in queen cells witch might start in a small cell but not finished in one, now you can have a small queen but most good queens are large because they were well feed, usually smaller queens weren't feed well thats why they end up smaller, I dont have small cell hives so I really cant give you a answer to suit everyone but just what I know, maybe small cell beeks like MB, Barry, or others can answer this better...
    Last edited by TwT; 01-22-2008 at 09:28 PM.
    Ted

  4. #3
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    I believe you're right Ted. The queen is not reared in standard comb cells and is not influenced by such. A standard excluder should work fine.

    - Barry

  5. #4
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    Dec 2005
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    Cleveland, Texas
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    All my bees are SC, a standard queen excluder seems to work fine. I have heard that sometimes a queen (either SC or LC) can still squeeze through, but I have not had that happen to me (yet).

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Loganville, GA
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    Default

    Russian and Carnie queens tend to be long and skinny compared to the big fat Italian queens. I have had a few but not many of the black queens slip through before. But it isn't often.

    But these guys are correct, the same cell cups are used for either sc or lc queen rearing. And no good reason that a sc queen should be any smaller because of cell size. And even drawn from a frame there shouldn't be any difference in the size of the cell produced. If that were to be true, then you could also expect drones to be smaller. I find it improbable that the bees are thinking that way.
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." Winston Churchill

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Western Pennsylvania
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    Quote Originally Posted by mintong View Post
    What queen excluder's work well at keeping small cell queens out of the supers?
    In my experience, small cell queens DO tend to be a bit smaller.
    Many might say that they do not appear smaller, BUT, I suspect
    that IF they would have a larger queen to compare, they will
    see that they are in fact smaller. There is a ‘memory’ in cell
    sizes that bees build. And this also applies to queen cell
    building with small cell bees building queen cells just a bit
    smaller.

    To answer your question.
    The restrictive point on a queen that keeps her from
    passing through, is the ‘thorax‘. In small cell queens,
    the change in size occurs overall, BUT mainly in the
    abdomen. The thorax width changes very little, and
    not enough to cause any major problems with queens
    passing through.

    Best Wishes,
    Joe
    FeralBeeProject.com
    http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/H...neybeeArticles

  8. #7

    Default Re: Small cell queens vs queen excluder

    So can a full size queen lay eggs in a small cell hive?
    Yes I'm a total Newb but I am looking into everything. And the esophageal mites sound like an issue I would like to prevent. If it in fact helps prevent them.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    England, UK
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    Default Re: Small cell queens vs queen excluder

    This is a 12 year old thread ...
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    5,456

    Default Re: Small cell queens vs queen excluder

    I raise large cell bees I have to keep chasing my banty rooster away when the virgin queens are making their orientation flights!
    Frank

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Crown Point, NY, USA
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    674

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    Did sc for 16 yrs. Now I don't do Lusby's sc. Queen excludes have always worked regardless of cell size. Except the few rare skinny queens.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
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    4,945

    Default Re: Small cell queens vs queen excluder

    When did tracheal mites become an issue again? More importantly, why won't some things ever die? Struttinbuck, allowing the bees to build as much foundationless comb as possible is the best choice for getting natural sized cells. But in the end, it really does not make much of a difference IMO. More to the point, learn to keep bees before going to the other side.

    Frank, completely missed it the first read. Yikes! I assume you have a similar problem with drones and the bantam hens?
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 03-09-2020 at 05:32 PM.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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