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Thread: Who's Grafting?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    >I definitely need more bees when I graft again in a few days.

    How aboud adding nurse bees from support colonies? Shake bees off open brood, through an excluder.

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Green Lane, PA
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    "How aboud adding nurse bees from support colonies? Shake bees off open brood, through an excluder."

    Sounds like a good idea, I may do that today. I knew there wasn't enough bees when I saw the gap between the frames where the grafts go didn't have any bees festooning. I also left a 3rd deep on top of the 2nd deep which was above the cloake brd. I don't know if it would have helped to take the 3rd deep off and force all the bees in the 2nd deep. The 3rd deep has about 6 frames of honey(no brood), so I'm not sure there were any young bees hanging out up there anyhow.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Seattle, Washington State
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    yule:

    the density of bees is key. If you moved them all into the second eep, that might work but better yet, you can shake a lot of bees into a nuc and go that way. Remember... it is the density of the bees that counts.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Green Lane, PA
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    I shook 4 frames of bees into the 2nd deep, I also removed the second deep and pu the frames of honey in other hives. I also noticed that the hive had alot of emerging brood which should help my bee density. I will graft again on Saturday, so I will keep you all posted.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Troupsburg, NY
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    These have good bee density, but it could be even better:




    http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...m/IMG_0825.jpg
    http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...m/IMG_0824.jpg
    http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...m/IMG_0822.jpg

    I should add that these are 5 frame nuc cell starters. Much easier to maintain than a full 10 frame starter.
    Last edited by peggjam; 06-07-2007 at 11:03 AM.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  7. #46
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    Mar 2005
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    Green Lane, PA
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    Well after my second graft went 7 for 32, I shook 6 frames of bees from the lower deep into the upper deep with the cloake board closed off, preventing any bees from going down below. Today I checked my 3rd graft and I got 35 out of 55, so I am making some descent progress. Now my problem is getting all those queens mated.....

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    53,768

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    I went to get the larvae out of the Jenter box Wednesday and they had removed all the eggs and filled it with nectar. I had to find another good queen and graft from that one. It sure took a lot longer as I had to find the right age eggs and then I had to graft, which took longer, but at least I got some cells started. Looks like about 30 or so.

    I do get better the more I do it.

    I confined TWO queens in TWO Jenter boxes today. Hopefully one will provide some larvae...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Grafting is well under way her. Third graft on Tuesday. Checked graft #2 today. 4 cell builders. 168 of 180. Nice looking cells this time.

    Not so with one cell builder last week. Cells in one cell builder were killed...here's why.

    On grafting day, in the morning, I remove bottom brood box with old queen. Top box is cell builder with only sealed brood. I shake nurse bees off open brood frames from bottom box...through excluder. So I don't mistakenly get queen. Bottom box and queen are moved to another yard.

    Afternoon is grafting time. Then, 5 days later, I bring back bottom box and old queen and place cell builder on her, over excluder. Cells are sealed by now, so I take a count. This batch was killed. There were eggs and young larvae in the cell builder.

    Only way was if queen went through excluder when I shook in nurse bees. It had been only 5 days. Eggs and very young larvae present...Because the queen had been laying in box just 5 days.

    Shaker box is new...made from hive body and new Mann Lake wood bound excluder.

    You bet I called. The excluder wires are not straight...but most are curved in the same direction...maintaining proper spacing. But there are some that curve away from each other...creating a larger space. I think the queen went through one of those spaces. I tried to explain that to "her," and she tells me that maybe I have a small queen...Not! This while I'm looking at the GD excluder.

    So, they want to send me a new ont. I said don't bother...unless the wires are straight. Don't need any more failed cell builders.

    Anyone else have trouble with ML excluders?

  10. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I went to get the larvae out of the Jenter box Wednesday and they had removed all the eggs and filled it with nectar.
    This is one advantage the early Texas and California queen breeders have over those of us raising summer northern ones, they don't have to worry about keeping ahead on the nectar flows. We have had this same problem trying to keep a frame open to put our breeder in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post

    ......So, they want to send me a new ont. I said don't bother...unless the wires are straight. Don't need any more failed cell builders.
    Anyone else have trouble with ML excluders?
    We have had queens go through the metal excluders a couple times, even when all the wires were straight. It is not that uncommon for a queen that really wants to, to get through an excluder. Usually it is just an inconvenience and means a little brood in our honey supers, but it is a real pain when you lose a bunch of cells. Once we had a virgin hatch early and after taking out most of the other cells went downstairs through the excluder and took out the colony queen!
    For queen rearing we always use a double excluder as insurance against just that happening. We have never had a queen go through both of them.
    Sheri

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
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    3,591
    How about,

    shake twenty pounds in a bulk cage, set your graft's in, wait two day then go to finishers.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Granby, CT
    Posts
    547

    Default Grafting in a queen right colony

    Yesterday I came across a super strong i deep queen right colony that was just boiling with bees and has started swarm cells, great candidate for a cell starter-finisher colony.
    Instead of looking for the queen in that big mass of bees I grafted 40 cells without removing the queen. I expect that the good weather we are having this week in CT and swarming impulse the bees already, have will produce superior queen cells and give me time to go and remove the queen in 5 days.
    I have done same graftings in the past with excellent results, the queen has to be removed in 1 week. The quality of cells is superior.
    So instead of using emergency cell building instinct in a typical queen less entity, we are trying to exploit the multiplying instinct that is expressed by swarm cells. To succeed in this kind of operation, the good weather is a must, that is why I waited till now.

    Ill let you know how thinks will evolve.

    Gilman

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,071

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Grafting is well under way her. Third graft on Tuesday. Checked graft #2 today. 4 cell builders. 168 of 180. Nice looking cells this time.

    Not so with one cell builder last week. Cells in one cell builder were killed...here's why.

    On grafting day, in the morning, I remove bottom brood box with old queen. Top box is cell builder with only sealed brood. I shake nurse bees off open brood frames from bottom box...through excluder. So I don't mistakenly get queen. Bottom box and queen are moved to another yard.

    Afternoon is grafting time. Then, 5 days later, I bring back bottom box and old queen and place cell builder on her, over excluder. Cells are sealed by now, so I take a count. This batch was killed. There were eggs and young larvae in the cell builder.

    Only way was if queen went through excluder when I shook in nurse bees. It had been only 5 days. Eggs and very young larvae present...Because the queen had been laying in box just 5 days.

    Shaker box is new...made from hive body and new Mann Lake wood bound excluder.

    You bet I called. The excluder wires are not straight...but most are curved in the same direction...maintaining proper spacing. But there are some that curve away from each other...creating a larger space. I think the queen went through one of those spaces. I tried to explain that to "her," and she tells me that maybe I have a small queen...Not! This while I'm looking at the GD excluder.

    So, they want to send me a new ont. I said don't bother...unless the wires are straight. Don't need any more failed cell builders.

    Anyone else have trouble with ML excluders?
    Why not take the time to find the frame that the queen is on, and set it aside, while you shake the rest of the frames? I know it takes longer, but by doing that, I don't have to monkey with excluders and such. I just shake right into the bulk bee box.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  14. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,591

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    > Why not take the time to find the frame that the queen is on, and set it aside, while you shake the rest of the frames? I know it takes longer, but by doing that, I don't have to monkey with excluders and such. I just shake right into the bulk bee box.

    Why not use a smoke-up box, dont have to look for queen & the fastest way to SHAKE.

    Can shake about 80-100 pounds per hour by my self.

  15. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
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    keith: did you make a smoke up box?

  16. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
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    Chef,

    Take a shallow super, cut a dozen slats vertical on the long side of the super put that together, glue the slats in, then screen the top.
    Smoke bees up you should get about five to eight pound and go directly to the bulk cage.

    P.S Chef you were talking on a nother post about about steaks and such, We drive up to Tahoe just for a fine dinner, the hell with gambling

  17. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
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    keith: I pmed you....

  18. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central CA.
    Posts
    943

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    Chef,
    If you'd like to see a picture of this smoker box, Keith is talking about, look in "The Hive and the honey bee" page 1038-39. They call it a cluster box. It's in the chapter on the production of queens and package bees.
    Jim

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