Roundup
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Thread: Roundup

  1. #1
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    Default Roundup

    Last summer I started the process of preparing about an acre of property so that I could seed it with dutch clover. I have laid down about 3 tons of pelletized lime, which has put a hurting on the moss and now sweetened up the soil. Last summer I followed the directions and used Roundup and watched everything die. I am curious though....this year, it appears that everything came back. Does Roundup really kill anything, or does it just burnout the tops? Is there a better product I can use? I used roundup twice last year and the second time I doubled the recommended strength.

    Maybe I did something wrong, but I don't think so.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffzhear View Post
    Last summer I started the process of preparing about an acre of property so that I could seed it with dutch clover. I have laid down about 3 tons of pelletized lime, which has put a hurting on the moss and now sweetened up the soil. Last summer I followed the directions and used Roundup and watched everything die. I am curious though....this year, it appears that everything came back. Does Roundup really kill anything, or does it just burnout the tops? Is there a better product I can use? I used roundup twice last year and the second time I doubled the recommended strength.

    Maybe I did something wrong, but I don't think so.
    There are still weed seeds in the soil. Most times it takes multiple applications over a period of time to kill most of the weeds. I usually spray... then till (or you can disc) the soil after everything is brown. After a while new weeds will start to grow back up again. I spray again and after everything turns brown lightly till again... Usually after the 3rd time you get most everything.

    That said... there are constanly weed seeds being blown into the area and dropped by birds etc. You'll never get everything. I'd spray a few times and then when you have most of it I'd plant. They do sell products that can be sprayed over clover to kill grass but I can't remember the name off the top of my head.

  4. #3
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    Ornamec is an over the top grass (monocot) herbicide. It can be udes only after the clover (or wildflowers,etc.) is well established.

    One also needs to add a surfactant to make it effective.

  5. #4
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    if you plow up a foot of soil with a 16 inch 3 bottom plow, weeds will sprout from that dirt. How many hundreds of years has that soil layer lain dormant? I'm sure you get some from bird poop and wind blown, but others just lie dormant for only God knows how long. Pretty amazing place, this Earth.

  6. #5
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    Roundup is a very efficient killer of most perennial weeds if applied correctly. Certain plants, clovers for instance are completely resistant to Roundup. Roundup must have 6 hours of dry weather following application. It should be applied before any seeds have set, if plants have formed seed it is advisable to mow them and wait for the foliage to green up, and seed to germinate. I always found that contrary to what one would think that a better kill is achieved by using slightly less chemical and slightly more volume of water. As already pointed out annual weeds are more difficult, as so much seed is already in the ground and germination is spread over many years. As a rule of thumb the longer it takes to get the initial kill the better, the quick browning usually results in burning the ends of the leaves followed by re-growth.

  7. #6
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    Default Double strength is a bad idea

    And this is why. Round up is taken up by the leaves and then down into the roots of the plant which is what kills the weed. If a stronger concentration is used it causes the leaves to die before the chemical is absorbed down the plant into the roots. Thus, the leaves are killed but the roots remain alive to resprout. There is reason for the directions on a package and they should always be followed. Theresa.

  8. #7
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    Some plants are just durable and able to come back after a shot of round-up. Poison ivy and japanese knotweed , for example. The root system is so extensive, not all of it dies. I suspect some well-established field grasses are the same.
    “The keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.” -Henry David Thoreau

  9. #8
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    Default pre-emergents for weed seeds

    Pre-emergent herbicides are used to prevent weed seeds from germinating. As you found out, round-up will only kill green plants. There are several pre-emergents on the market. Your local nursery/ag. chemical supplier should be able to direct you to the right product.

    As you might imagine, you have to wait until the herbicide is inactive before seeding - so read the packaging carefully.
    Last edited by Ardilla; 05-18-2007 at 08:34 AM.

  10. #9
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    Roundup(glyphosate)is a systemic salt-like substance that is carried down to the roots of a growing plant. that's why they tell you to apply it to growing stages of plants. You can get other stuff to sterilize the soil(Pramitol for example) and other applications for woody shrubs, etc, but most of the good stuff requires a pesticide applicators license. You should always follow the label instructions for hazards, plant types, first-aid, etc.
    Banjos and bees... how sweet it is!

  11. #10
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    Default Roundup plus Preen

    A deadly combo - sytemic plus a pre-emergent. Don't underestimate windblown seeds and animal dropings (birds, deer ect.) Meaning its a yearly battle.

    Steve
    Steven Lechner<br />[email protected]<br />303.657.5360

  12. #11
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    Isn't anybody going to say "don't spray"? I know it's easy, but after loosing all my feral bees after an herbicide spraying, I feel stronger than ever that it's a risky solution - especially for bees.

    In my case, the rancher who keeps cattle about 50 feet from my extinct hives puts a broadleaf herbicide on every spring. After that, the cockle burrs and other tall annuals sprout up and shade out most of the grass. The cattle won't eat it, so it is now dominant. I keep mentioning that if he'd just mow 2 or 3 times per year, before the weeds make seed, he'd get just as good control. I even offer to do the tractor work. But, no.....

  13. #12
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    Technically herbicides kill weeds, insecticides kill insects, and fungicides kill fungi.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Certain plants, clovers for instance are completely resistant to Roundup.
    THis is a new one on me. my clover must not have read the label.
    If you buy the generic (glycophosphate) it is much cheaper. THe only plant I have seen that is resistant to roundup is the geneticlly modified soybeans that they call round up ready beans. THose you can spray and it won't hurt them.
    david

  15. #14
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    <my clover must not have read the label>

    Now that is interesting, I have always thought of clover as white, max height 12 inches, varieties Wild White, Aslike and other Dutch and New Zealand varieties which are not killed by Glyphosate. I have sprayed many hundreds of acres of grassland prior to No-Till drilling of Sheep Fodder and the clover always survived.

    While I was under the impression clover was clover the world over, they say you learn something every day. What colour flowers has it got. We do have red clover over here as well but I would not know if that was killed or not.

  16. #15
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    I can't believe how enthusiastically you guys chuck poisons around the place. It is lazy and irresponsible IMO. I would give up beekeeping before putting a penny in the pockets of Monsanto et al.
    Use a scythe, a plow or a flamethrower if you have to, but STOP SPRAYING CR*P AROUND THE PLANET - please.
    The Barefoot Beekeeper http://www.biobees.com

  17. #16
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    Clovers not completely resistant to Roundup, but it does show more tolerance to it than alot of the other common field weeds.


    >>rancher who keeps cattle about 50 feet from my extinct hives puts a broad leaf herbicide on every spring

    Texas,

    Your talking about a rancher, so I assume he is spraying his pastures. broad leaf will not kill grasses, just broad leaf plants, like cockle bur.
    So I wonder, if the broad leaf spray is being used is to help control maybe the cockle bur, to allow the grasses a better chance to grow. Because the cattle dont give the grasses much of a chance to compete when heavily grazed. Sounds like he is managing best he can,

    But funny thing to have your hives killed off by a broad leaf?
    OR perhaps it easier to blame the farmer next door rather than accepting the looses yourself.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckbee View Post
    Use a scythe, a plow or a flamethrower if you have to, but STOP SPRAYING
    A plow is hardly environmentally friendly, think of all the fossil fuels burned to pull the thing, and all the soil lost to erosion...

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckbee View Post
    I can't believe how enthusiastically you guys chuck poisons around the place. It is lazy and irresponsible IMO. I would give up beekeeping before putting a penny in the pockets of Monsanto et al.
    Use a scythe, a plow or a flamethrower if you have to, but STOP SPRAYING CR*P AROUND THE PLANET - please.
    Their might be a Mennonite or two around here who still use a scythe, but I doubt it. A plow isn't very useful for weed control unless you are leaving the field fallow all year and that requires more than a plow and a lot of trips through the field.

    A flamethrower?! Hundreds of acres are burning in various regions of the country, we really don't need anymore wildfires.

  20. #19
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    What you do is: plant a crop that fixes nitrogen(legume), follow by another crop that uses nitrogen(corn), followed by hogs(they eat the corn residue and plow the field for you), throw in some free-range chickens(to clean up the bugs), followed by a grass or clover(fallow), maybe as a pasture for a few cows, then start all over again. The guy who farms the field by my house plants cotton year after year after year. When I ask him about soil depletion and disease and pests, he says they fertilize and spray. Great....
    Banjos and bees... how sweet it is!

  21. #20
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    qdma.org has good info. for the mini-farmer/food plot manager. i.e. planting and managing clover for deer, works well for bees. Thats what I do. I try to use little round-up, and late in the day. Search under 'frost seeding' also.

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