Anyone using graftless queen rearing systems?
Anyone using graftless queen rearing systems?
Hey Michael,what are the advantages and disadvantages with that type of system versus the general grafting type?I understand the general "no grafting" but can you give us a little details of one vers. the other?
I hope to start breeding full steam next spring,grafting with starter/finisher method.Have thought about the graftless method but figured I should start with something proven and have seen first hand.
If you build it they will comb it.<br />Tim Rolan
>Hey Michael,what are the advantages and disadvantages with that type of system versus the general grafting type?
With grafting you can make your own cell cups, if you want and buy virtually no equipment that don't make yourself. You can even make your own grafting needle.
The advantages to graftless systems are:
1) Eyesight is not so big of an issue.
2) Coordination is not so big of an issue.
3) You KNOW the age of the larvae because of the queen confinement cage.
4) You don't have to learn to graft.
>I hope to start breeding full steam next spring,grafting with starter/finisher method.
I wouldn't count your queens until they emerge. It took me a few tries to get the hang of a cell starter. Then some more to work out how I was going to do my mating nucs.
>Have thought about the graftless method but figured I should start with something proven and have seen first hand.
Graftless systems are quite proven and a lot more foolproof than grafting. Grafting requires more skills.
Thanks for the reply.
Here is one site that has information on using the Jenter system.
I bought the system Mann-Lake sells. It was originally made by a plastic manufacturer in France whose owner was also a beekeeper. His system is a copy of the Jenter system. I see Mann-Lake now calls it the Mann-Lake system.
Anyway, I was looking for someone whose brain I could pick while I try and get set up, again.
I had planned on building mating nucs out of wood, but I see they make little plastic ones now.
What do you use for mating nucs?
>His system is a copy of the Jenter system.
Any idea if the parts are interchangable? I'm having trouble buying parts for the Jenter system, but I have so much invested already I don't want to change systems.
I purchase mine from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm
610 Bethany Church Rd.
Moravian Falls, NC 28654
I don't know if they still have them, but they show in their 2004 catalog. I have two that I keep just in case. I have gone to grafting, because I don't have to cage the queen.
>I purchase mine from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm
So did I and my second one has been on backorder for a year and everyone else I've called who lists a Jenter is out of stock. I assume the manufacturer is not shipping to the US currently.
I don't know if the parts are interchangeable or not. You might try ordering a couple of items and see. Mann-Lake used to sell both systems and might be able to answer the question.
The Betterbee system is the cupularve that I have. Did they send the useless instructions with yours (translated French)? I have some stuff I downloaded years ago when I was trying to get set up. Betterbee has a better price than Mann-Lake.
The betterbee system sounds almost simple.
Is is possible to pull a queen from one of your existing hives for the 24 hours needed and return her??
Closing in on retirement.......
I shredded the instructions Put two and two together and Hey Presto.
I have done my fair share of queen rearing but just wanted to try this method out as I am now teaching Apiculture. I dont like teaching on something that I have not mastered.
I have a friend that purchased the Mann Lake and his instructions seemed lacking. We through out his directions, and I found an old copy of the Jenter and gave to him. He is off and running.
I'm glad to know that the Jenter system has instructions. Is there any chance I could get a copy, too?
The Mann-Lake system has queen protectors. Can these be used to protect the queen cells from the other hatching queens? Is there a down side to leaving the queens in the finishing hive until they have hatched? How many days can they stay cooped up before being transfered to the mating nucs?
I will ask this question a second time. Does anyone use those little plastic mating nucs?
Michael has found a VHS video showing how the Nicot Cupularve system works. Mann-Lake, Betterbee and I assume, Dadant, sells this same system under their own name, but the parts all look the same. Here is the video Michael found:
One more page with valuable information from Beeworks.
There is also a 1-1/2 hour VHS video on queen rearing that includes the nicot system and 2 others.
And the company that make? it:
My spelling: Coupelarvae
Correct spelling: Cupularve
No wonder I couldn't get a hit doing a search.
>The Mann-Lake system has queen protectors. Can these be used to protect the queen cells from the other hatching queens?
The cell protectors will not protect them from other queens, but will protect them from being torn down by the bees in the mating nuc.
The hair curler cages can be used to protect them from other queens. I put a very small piece of crystalized honey in the cap for the queen to eat.
I have not had any luck putting the hair curler cages on without injuring the queen before day 14.
>Is there a down side to leaving the queens in the finishing hive until they have hatched?
Acceptance is better when introduced to the mating nuc or the hive to be requeend as cells.
>How many days can they stay cooped up before being transfered to the mating nucs?
I try not to have them in the curler cage more than a day or two.
>I will ask this question a second time. Does anyone use those little plastic mating nucs?
Not me. I use two frame medium nucs that take standard medium frames that I build myself.
>Mann-Lake, Betterbee and I assume, Dadant, sells this same system under their own name, but the parts all look the same.
The parts all look similar. I don't think they look the same at all. I would like to know if any are interchangable with the Jenter. If any one knows, please let me know.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, Michael.
You are a gentleman and a scholar.
I built 5 frame nucs for mating several years ago, but to me, the smaller plastic ones would take less resources to maintain and I could have more going at one time. I'll follow your advice for next year.
I also built a Floor without a Floor with an intergal queen excluder. I don't remember where I got the plans, now.
Have you asked Betterbee, Dadant and Mann-Lake where their systems originate? Have you asked them about the Jenter systems?
If I get a chance, I will do that tomorrow.
>I built 5 frame nucs for mating several years ago, but to me, the smaller plastic ones would take less resources to maintain and I could have more going at one time.
The nice thing about the two frame medium nucs is they take less resources than five frame deeps (far less resources) and I can consolidate them back into a hive at the end of the breeding season.
>I also built a Floor without a Floor with an intergal queen excluder. I don't remember where I got the plans, now.
I've never seen any plans, but I have pictures of mine here: