Sucrocide Results
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    1,036

    Post

    I used Sucrocide for the first time yesterday on one of my three hives and got some interesting results. The 24 hour mite drop about one week prior to treatment was 78. The drop after treatment was roughly 2000. I quit counting at 300 and estimated. This is probably conservative because I didn't put the sticky sheet in until about 20 minutes after treatment. A fair number were still wiggling around in the oil. One result I didn't expect was 12 dead adult hive beetles on the sheet. There was no other sign of beetle infestation including no beetle larva.

    The other unexpected result was a couple hundred dead bees. It's just a tiny fraction of the hive population, but still alarming. I really think I just drowned them. Afterwards, I read where it should take about 1 quart of solution to treat 2 deep hive bodies. I used more like 2 quarts out of my 2 gallon garden sprayer. I don't think my concentration was too high or they would all be dead. I probably went overboard to get every bee wet including those at the entrance, on the inner cover, and on the ground. Hopefully I didn't drown the queen.

    I just experimented on one hive. I'll probably treat my other two soon. Once you get the knack of maneuvering the frames, it really doesn't take more than a couple minutes per hive body -- about 3 seconds of spray per frame side with my particular sprayer.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    Steve you need to read the directions on how to determine the out put of your sprayer.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    1,036

    Post

    I did. The instructions say to measure the time to spray 6 fl. oz. Their example was for a sprayer that takes 16 seconds which corresponds to 2 seconds of spray per frame side to apply the "correct" amount of active ingredient. My sprayer took about 25 seconds to spray 6 ounces of solution. That would correspond to about 3 seconds per frame side. I really don't think it's that critical -- as long as your concentration is correct (3 tablespoons per 2 gallons of water).

  5. #4

    Post

    For what its worth: I used Sucrocide on 3 colonies this past August. After spraying I noticed the queen from one of the colonies in the grass in front of the hive.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,964

    Post

    I wanted to have Sucrocide as a back-up. This kind of information is invaluable. Seems like we need an application method that csn be fine-tuned. I heard in a private e-mail of a guy that put it in a fogger. I don't know if it worked. Thanks for posting.

    Dickm

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Post

    I have used it twice this past season. I did not use a garden pump sprayer, but instead a large hand-held bottle with a trigger pump - yes my muscles got a real workout. I have never seen dead bees after an application. However, the first time I sprayed them I thought for sure I killed the hive. The bee "freeze" upon application and don't appear to move until after the liquid starts to dry.

    I try to keep my queens marked so that when spraying I can avoid direct application to the queen. So far no problems. Mite counts are very low. Time consuming process using my application method.

    Since my hives are in my yard, I'd like to use a hose end sprayer, the type that you can dial-in the concentration. Any one else use this type of sprayer?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    AstroBee, I have such a sprayer. It won't work because the water will come out too hard. You might try a Wagner hand held paint spayer though. Those can be set so you get a fine mist.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    1,036

    Post

    To elaborate just a little, I think the bees that were on the vertical frame surfaces where the excess liquid could run off were fine. I believe it was those that were at the entrance or in the corner of the bottom board, etc. that perished because the solution stayed in place. The bees do "freeze" temporarily and so didn't seem to be able to walk away from it. The instructions said they would look "bedraggled". They really looked downright pathetic. A couple hours later, everything looked normal. There has been some question about the effect on open brood. Most of it was covered by bees, so I doubt if there was much direct exposure. There's not a lot of brood this time of year anyway.

    I'm not sure about fogging it. It's a sugary soapy solution -- it looks like thin maple syrup. So even diluted it may not do well in a fogger. But with the right sprayer I do believe there's a way to get enough coverage by sticking the spray wand with the right tip between the frames and not have to remove each one individually. You might have to remove one to make enough space so as to not mash bees. That should get it down to less than a minute per hive body.

    I'm not trying to sell it, but it sure seems like an effective non-toxic (to bees or humans) treatment for mites. Although I haven't seen any claims for killing SHB, it may have an effect on them as well.


  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    4,211

    Post

    GaSteve,

    I failed to mention in my previous post that I too have seen dead SHB after the application. I'm assuming that Sucrocide was the cause of the death.

    I agree with you that it has promise as a nontoxic approach to mite control, but the application effort is a big problem. If you devise an efficient low-cost application technique please share it with us.


  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Temecula, CA
    Posts
    146

    Post

    I used sucrocide this year on 10 colonies with good success.

    As was mentioned in another post, it is a big pain and time consuming to pull and spray each frame. If spraying down between the bars has proven to be effective, I'll give it a try in the spring.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Clayton Indiana
    Posts
    348

    Post

    Thanks for the report. Sounds like an alternative for resistant mites. Still looking for an easy way to apply quickly. I was thinking of a pump up garden sprayer.
    Todd Zeiner

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Medina, OH USA
    Posts
    69

    Post

    So there is no accidents gentlemen please post specifics for things. Everyone assumes foggers =Burgess or Hudson electric or propane styles and they are not ment for water let alone surrocide! I use an agricultural orchard fogger and this is not a FGMO unit.Its sole purpose is to turn water / liquids into a super fine fogging mist. They whole interior is turned into the London fog in less than 12 seconds. Get facts straight before someone gets hurt or burned by trying to put sucrocide in a burgess fogger!!!!!

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Wakefield, MA, USA
    Posts
    223

    Post

    There are various small or portable cold foggers on the market. Unfortunately they are 120VAC units (such as http://www.kill-fireants.com/b&g_foggers.htm#Mytilite
    )

    Question is, if the Burgess type (thermal) units are not suitable could these other types be used with Sucrocide?

    Has anyone actually tried fogging with this chemical?

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    1,036

    Post

    Even if Sucrocide could be used in a fogger, there is a problem of volume. The current research says that you have to get a certain volume of the active ingredient on the mites to be effective which is why the bees need to be doused pretty well. I don't think a fogger can deliver that kind of volume. If you try a stronger concentration, you may get more active ingredient on the mites -- then again you may kill your bees. On the other hand, this is new territory and I doubt anyone's ever done any experiments like that. If anyone tries it, let us know how it works.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,647

    Post

    Wasn't it the USDA that came up with SO as an alternative for small scale beekeepers? Wouldn't they have experimented with different application methods?

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,398

    Post

    > Wasn't it the USDA that came up with SO as an
    > alternative for small scale beekeepers?

    As far as I know, Tony Barrington, who owns AVA
    Chemical Ventures up in Portsmouth, NH, took it
    upon himself to bother to apply for EPA
    registration as a miteicide. I've spoken with him,
    and he is well aware that he may not make enough
    on sales to beekeepers to cover the registration
    costs, but as he said, "There's lots of
    applications for this."

    If the USDA was involved in the beekeeping
    application of SOE, they have not mentioned it,
    which would be unusual for the USDA. They are not
    shy about putting out press releases.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,647

    Post

    OK Jim. I haven't followed it that closely. Some of what I find about it on google mentions USDA so I assumed they were involved with it.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Temecula, CA
    Posts
    146

    Post

    YBCute:
    I use a pump-style garden sprayer as per the instructions.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Huntington, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    435

    Post

    I had good results with Sucrocide last Spring. Big mite drop after the first spraying. It takes some time, but seems perfect for a small hobby beekeeper like me. I sprayed again each weekend for 2 more weeks without much in the way of additional mite drop. This year I'll do it in the Spring and the Fall. I used a 2-gallon garden sprayer I got at So. States to make measuring the Sucrocide easier.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    portage IN USA
    Posts
    19

    Post

    guys, i'm going to try a 12volt water pump(the kind you would use in a camper usually well under 100.00)to spray with. the flow will be consistant.
    i mounted it to the lid of a 5 gallon bucket, added a spray wand, long enough wires to suit my need to plug it to my pickup. should work great. give it a try
    ( the pumps automatically shut off when the pressure builds so it just doesnt just keep running)

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