it looked like they tried to swarm in winter
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  1. #1

    Sad

    I have one hive that Looked like they tried to swarm in the dead of winter. They made it a foot from the hive. A large pile of dead bees in front of the hive with nothing inside. I don't get it.
    The hive has a super of honey untouched. anyone know what this is caused from.

    Thanks for any info i can get.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Any sign of pests? Waxmoths? Skunks? Varroa mites? Small hive beetles? Where are you located? What's the weather been like? Is there any brood in the hive?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    >A large pile of dead bees in front of the hive with nothing inside.

    >The hive has a super of honey untouched.

    Surely does sound like Tracheal mites. Are you located in the north? Italian bees?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    I didn't see where JZD said the hive was dead out. I know that my hives just had the first 2 days above 50 in 65 days so they did some house cleaning. Don't know - but if JZD is a newbie the pile of bees might be confused for a dead swarm instead of just normal spring cleaning?
    Steven Lechner<br />[email protected]<br />303.657.5360

  6. #5
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    I didn't see where JZD said the hive was dead out. I know that my hives just had the first 2 days above 50 in 65 days so they did some house cleaning. Don't know - but if JZD is a newbie the pile of bees might be confused for a dead swarm instead of just normal spring cleaning?
    Steven Lechner<br />[email protected]<br />303.657.5360

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Eugene, OR
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    &lt;.... with nothing inside.&gt;
    Time wounds all heals.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, Wi
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    I also am a newbie

    I have one colony that looks like it pushed half the population out the door on the coldest day or the year.

    Many times more dead than any other colony I have, definately not normal. There is still a lot of bees in the colony, with plenty of honey. They are italian, and there hasn't been any drastic improvement in weather, It was at or below zero at night and mid-teens during the day for the last three weeks - although it was above freezing for a few days before that - about the last time I took a walk past them.

    The only thing different about this colony is that I added a swarm to it in early September minus the unknown queen. Maybe they had Tmites?

    Any ideas? If it is Treacheal mites, How do I tell - they can't be seen, can they? and what can I do about it?
    Change is inevitable, Growth is optional

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Evansville, IN, USA
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    I suggest sending a sample of the dead bees to Beltville lab.

    SAMPLES for DIAGNOSIS - [Ref 9, p146, Ref 14, p145 and http://www.barc.usda.gov/psi/brl/directs.htm]

    Samples of Adult Bees
    • Send at least 100 bees and if possible, select bees that are dying or that died recently. Decayed bees are not satisfactory for examination.
    • Bees should be placed in 70% ethyl or methyl alcohol as soon as possible after collection and carefully packed in leak-proof container.
    • Alternatively, bees can be placed in a paper bag or loosely wrapped in paper towel, newspaper, etc. and sent in a mailing tube or heavy cardboard box. AVOID USING plastic bags, aluminum foil, waxed paper, tin, glass, etc. because they promote decomposition.

    Samples of Brood
    • Sample of comb should be at least 2 x 2” and contain as much of the dead or discolored brood as possible. NO HOMEY SHOULD BE PRESENT IN SAMPLE.
    • Comb can be in a paper bag or loosely wrapped in paper towel, newspaper, etc. and sent in heavy cardboard box. AVOID wrapping in plastic, aluminum foil, waxed paper, tin, glass, etc. because they promote decomposition.
    • If comb can not be sent, a probe used to examine a diseased larva in the cell may contain enough material for tests. Wrap probe in paper and send to laboratory in an envelope.

    How to Address Sample
    • Send all samples to:

    Bee Disease Diagnosis
    Bee Research Laboratory
    Bldg. 476 BARC-East
    Beltsville, MD 20705

    • Include short description of problem along w/ your name and address.
    • Time sensitive samples or samples requiring culturing (AFB Resistance) should be sent by UPS or FedEx.
    • There is no charge for this service.
    • Email: [email protected]

  10. #9
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    davew sezs:
    I suggest sending a sample of the dead bees to Beltville lab.

    tecumseh replies:
    This does sound quite a bit like one of those 'old bee journal' reports about absconding disease.

  11. #10
    Join Date
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    &gt;This does sound quite a bit like one of those 'old bee journal' reports about absconding disease . . .

    Maybe some random samples could help w/ the "new problem" some are having. [img]smile.gif[/img]

  12. #11
    Join Date
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    &gt;This does sound quite a bit like one of those 'old bee journal' reports about absconding disease . . .


    But, the bees are dead on the ground.

  13. #12
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    The article I recall (likely late 70's) did NOT totally fit the profile of the current disease. The bee keeper (seemed like it was winsconsin) who wrote the article was a part timer (maybe 40 hives) and was definitely NOT migratory. But I think??? perhaps he had once been employed as a state bee inspector.... anyway he seemed quite experienced and knowledgeable to me. He describe a general condition where a great many of his hives went into decline in late fall and one hive seemed to 'swarm out of the hive in the middle of the winter and fell from the sky and died on the snow'.

    During that period this dwindling-perishing episodes within individual hives was generally referred to as absconding disease. Mraz (sp?) generally discounted the use of absconding as a description of the disease a few years later and reported seeing a case in Arizona. The Arizona beekeeper could distinquish healthy bees from sick bees within an affected hive, or so Mraz stated ... but provided no clues to this discrimination. Mraz also described: you could seperate the worker between the abdoman and thorax... a healthy bee would have a very thin clear thread of fluid running thru it gut and the affected individuals gut was thick and yellow.

    And there ya' go....

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Delta,Colorado,USA
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    It might be CCD Here is a web sight you can check out

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder

    perhaps Michael can give all of us some input on this.


    Kirby

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    &gt; It might be CCD...

    Not from the symptoms described.
    The halmark of CCD (citing MAAREC's report)
    is the complete lack of any dead bees that
    one can find, but a queen, a largish patch
    of brood, and a small number of young bees,
    too small a number to tend the brood one
    sees.

    If you can answer the questions about where,
    what the weather was like, and so on, your
    questions can be better-addressed, but
    regardless, don't lose heart - stuff happens,
    and strange stuff happens. All the time.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Sorry about your bees.. w/ the information everyone is asking.. they'll be able to help you more.

  17. #16
    Join Date
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    &gt;perhaps Michael can give all of us some input on this.

    Not sure if you're meaning me. Read what Jim said. CCD symptoms are NO dead bees in or around the hives. JZD says..."A large pile of dead bees in front of the hive with nothing inside." Also says..."The hive has a super of honey untouched."

    These are the classic symptoms of Tracheal mite damage. The bees are weakened by the mites, and when they try to take a cleansing flight...they can't fly, fall to the ground in front of the hive and die. Often there is a small patch of brood in the hive. As the colony loses bees, what is left of the cluster moves off the brood, and dies. Also, heavy dysentery is often present. I have been getting reports...from Maine...that Tracheal mite is a problem this year. I guess it goes in cycles...and will be especially bad in colonies of bees not resistant to it...such as those raised in the south, but kept in the north.

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