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24 Hour Varoa Count? *UPDATED*

44K views 341 replies 27 participants last post by  Dave W 
#1 ·
What are 'acceptable' numbers?
Above what number do you recommend Apistan?
Up to what number do you feel powdered sugar is adequate to treat?
Dan

[ August 01, 2006, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: longarm ]
 
#52 ·
It may not be a foregone conclusion, but it is well documented that the drones are the biggest carriers of varroa between colonies. They are the only ones welcome to go from colony to colony without being questioned. No other bee has the oportunity to visit multiple hives on a regular basis.
 
#54 ·
>it is well documented that the drones are the biggest carriers of varroa between colonies . . .

This is news to me
Where is it "well documented"?

Robbers (workers only) are the "carriers" that concerns me. They have the potential to re-infest a hive very quickly. Drones may carry mites INTO hive but probably carry an equal amount OUT as well.
 
#56 ·
Ginger

these days, most new hives come with SBB
(screened bottom board)
here's pics

http://www.beesource.com/plans/ipmbottom.htm

it let's mite that naturally fall off the bee's fall out the bottom of the hive
then you put a piece of cardboard smeared with some vegtable oil under it and the mites get stuck on it and you can pull it out and count em
people typically talk about how many fall out in 24 hrs
a 24 hr natural drop
there all kinds of thoughts on how many constitute a problem
I worry if it's over about 20/day

Dave
 
#57 ·
Dave,

Thanks. I've an older hive and am going to order a SBB.

I'm also trying to decide between fogging with MGFO or using formic acid, maybe even vinegar to rid the hive of mites.

Is there a source for natural (not plastic) small cell comb?
 
#58 ·
Dave,

Thanks. I've an older hive and am going to order a SBB.

I'm also trying to decide between fogging with FGMO or using formic acid, maybe even vinegar to rid the hive of mites.

Is there a source for natural (not plastic) small cell comb?
 
#60 ·
iddee,
I agree with your comments as a whole although as DaveW pointed out, the "documented" part may be lacking.

A few points....

Drones do in fact drift and are welcome from one hive to another. That point is documented.

Diane Cox at Penn State in researching virus vectors, had stated and documented that mites transfer(along with Virus transfer) happens within an apiary on a regular basis. Her research goal was not based on these findings and was not the point at hand. So the facts and data have been stated on a casual observation level. These hives being tested had shown a great transfer of virus and mite loads that were not attributed to robbing.

I'll assume it must be in part to drone drift. Although in doing many sugar shakes, it is common to see bees covered in sugar an hour later in another hive. At first I thought it may be just confused bees, being covered in sugar and all. But further observations would make it appear for other reasons. Just how many worker bees drift is hard to say. May be in part to both worker and drone drifting.

I do beleive drones play a bigger part in mite transfer than first thought, especially at this time of year. Drones being kicked out of one hive, may just go to the next hive. Hives rearing late swarm queens and those superceding may allow these drones into the hives in great numbers. At this time of the year, with the increasing mite loads, such drone increases can drastically change mite loads. This my opinions based on observations, and of course not "well documented".

The one way to eliminate the drone impact on hives through drift would be to do mite counts while using drone excluders. This would eliminate the drone factor while making comments from DaveW like "Drones may carry mites INTO hive but probably carry an equal amount OUT as well." a non issue. (Dissmissing one persons comments while using "may" and "probably" is a little hard to swallow.) As of this time I know no such test, thereby making drones a real possibility of mite transfer. Drone drifting through the year may have one level of impact, and drones congregating in receptive hives after being kicked out of another may cause an increase impact.
 
#64 ·
>Drones may carry mites INTO hive but probably carry an equal amount OUT as well.

Yeah. If mite immigration was primarily due to drifting, you'd expect mite populations in your hives to sort of even out over time, sort of like how the population in a small town remains stable over time- every time a baby is born, a man leaves town...

I wasn't suggesting that mite immigration doesn't occur, I know it does but unless a dying hive full of mites is being robbed out, I'd expect changes in mite populations due to immigration to be minor. Maybe?
 
#65 ·
Changes in population, yes. I would think the biggest factor there would be the amount of brood present. I do not think you go from 100 mites to 5000 mites in a hive through mite travel.

What about initial infestation of strong hives that aren't being robbed out, or robbing out? Even if you have a 100% kill and have no mites in a hive that is too strong to allow any robbers in,and find no weak hives to rob, it will still become infested. That is the thing I am crediting the drones with. The mite devastated the bees of NC in a matter of a few years. I do not believe they spread that fast from robbing.
 
#67 ·
>> You don't have to be a pedantic hyper-technical former land surveyor like myself to figure it out [Smile]

>Yes, you are perfectly correct, in a pedantic,
hyper-technical way.

That's me, and Thank You! It is rare these days when I get such acknowledgment [Smile]<<

>>Spontaneous generation iddee, a proven mechanism for establishing life where no life existed before. They come from... the ether [Smile]<<

George, you are just tooooo modest. You should really learn to take credit for your magnificent genius. :D
 
#72 ·
Hello again all. Returned from vacation to a stickyboard absolutely covered in hive debris and an estimated several thousand mites. Too much to sort through (sorry Dave).
So I put a fresh board on and after 24 hours I have 112 mites on it!!
Does that seem pretty high after 20 days of Apistan treatment?
Dan
 
#75 ·
Dan, I'll see if I can scan the procedure and post or send it tomorrow. Its alot to type out. Basically its putting some bees in a jar and after the chemical kills the mites, you sugar shake the remaining mites out to see what percentage is being killed by the strips. I know it was typed out previously on beesource in another thread so maybe you could search it out and see what others have said also.
 
#76 ·
Longarm . . .

Please add up the numbers, 935+397+257+250+136+270+168+266+265+"an estimated several thousand"+112. Does this sound like resistant mites?

112 is within the realm of "invasion". Lets see MORE counts. Please do them the same way as all others.

Edited to add:
We need at least 4 or 5 (or more) consecutive counts.
thanx.

[ August 26, 2006, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Dave W ]
 
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