Earliest recorded date of bees brought to the US [Archive] - Beesource Beekeeping Forums

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snl
02-14-2017, 08:24 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at this?

kramerbryan
02-14-2017, 09:56 PM
Columbus

JConnolly
02-15-2017, 12:41 AM
1622 Virginia.

1853 California.

It wasn't easy to get them here. Keeping bees alive for 8 weeks on the ocean is difficult.

Michael Palmer
02-15-2017, 04:59 AM
1622 Virginia.

Lusby would strongly disagree.

BadBeeKeeper
02-15-2017, 06:40 AM
A year after the Mayflower arrived—perhaps with bees aboard—the Virginia Company of London sent beehives to its governor at Jamestown, "the preservation and encrease whereof we recommend to you." And "encrease" they did. By 1705, Virginia planter Robert Beverley could write: "Bees thrive there abundantly, and will very easily yield to the careful Huswife, two Crops of Honey in a Year." By 1782, as Thomas Jefferson wrote, "The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians therefore call them the white man's fly." When bees came, could settlers be far behind?


https://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Autumn07/bugs.cfm

snl
02-15-2017, 06:47 AM
So if the Mayflower arrived in 1620, the US had bees in 1621?

JTGaraas
02-15-2017, 06:57 AM
Trick question? May 29, 1790 - when Rhode Island ratified the Constitution?

FlowerPlanter
02-15-2017, 08:12 AM
1622?


"So when did the first colonies of honey bees arrive in the New World? These bees probably came from England and arrived in Virginia in 1622. By 1639 colonies of honey bees were found throughout the woods in Massachusetts. Some of the colonists who arrived at Plymouth likely brought bees, as well as sheep, cows and chickens on the trip across the Atlantic.";

https://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/agcomm/newscolumns/archives/OSL/1999/November/111199OSL.html

"The only evidence we have of the initial importation of honey bees to North America is a letter written December 5, 1621 by the Council of the Virginia Company in London and addressed to the Governor and Council in Virginia, “Wee haue by this Shipp and the Discouerie sent you diurs [divers] sortes of seedes, and fruit trees, as also Pidgeons, Connies, Peacockes Maistiues [Mastiffs], and Beehives, as you shall by the invoice pceiue [perceive]; the preservation & encrease whereof we respond vnto you…” (Goodwin 1956; Kingsbury 1906:532). The Discovery (60 tons, Thomas Jones, captain, and twenty persons) left England November 1621 and arrived in Virginia March 1622 (Langford Ship Information; Brown 1898:469-470). The other ship described only as “this shipp” could have been either the Bona Nova (200 tons, John Huddleston, master, and fifty persons) or the Hopewell (60 tons, Thomas Smith, master, and twenty persons), also known as the Great Hopewell. The Bona Nova was a month behind and arrived at Jamestown in April (Langford Ship Information). This was the Hopewell’s first voyage to Virginia and there is no record of the date of its arrival (Langford Ship Information), although Brown claims it arrived at Jamestown within 24 days of the Good Friday March 22, 1622 massacre (Brown 1898:469).";

http://www.orsba.org/download/Honey%20Bees%20Across%20America.html

Michael Bush
02-15-2017, 09:11 AM
Can anyone imagine Vikings coming here, finding no bees and not bringing any back on the next trip? Vikings without mead are no Vikings at all...

snl
02-15-2017, 09:14 AM
Can anyone imagine Vikings coming here, finding no bees and not bringing any back on the next trip? Vikings without mead are no Vikings at all...

I agree, but unfortunately ........... no proof...... I guess the Vikings were too drunk to write about it! :lookout:

cervus
02-15-2017, 09:22 AM
Trick question? May 29, 1790 - when Rhode Island ratified the Constitution?

Haha. Good point. United States or North America? Pretty big difference.

Michael Bush
02-15-2017, 09:50 AM
> I guess the Vikings were too drunk to write about it!

The Vikings did not keep records. The Spanish didn't keep very good records... Judging by the genetics of chickens in California and South America, the Chinese brought a lot of things with them in 1421. Although they kept good records, most were destroyed when they went into their xenophobia phase...

As far as the earliest documentation I think it's a letter dated December 5, 1621 addressed to the Governor and Council in Virginia from the Council of the Virginia Company in London: "Wee haue by this Shipp and the Discouerie sent you diurs [divers] sortes of seedes, and fruit trees, as also Pidgeons, Connies, Peacockes Maistiues [Mastiffs], and Beehives, as you shall by the invoice pceiue [perceive]; the preservation & encrease whereof we respond vnto you…” (Goodwin 1956; Kingsbury 1906:532)."

Brad Bee
02-15-2017, 10:36 AM
547 BC

msl
02-15-2017, 10:51 AM
14 million years ago?:lookout:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/fossil-shows-first-all-american-honeybee

lemmje
02-15-2017, 11:15 AM
547 BC

I know what you are referring to, but it does not say they were loaded on to the barges, just that they were carried to the sea shore.

FlowerPlanter
02-15-2017, 12:00 PM
The Indians named them " white man's flies" might be an indication there were none here before.

"Prior to the arrival of the Old World settlers, honey bees were unknown to Native Americans. In fact, several early American writers, including Thomas Jefferson, reported that honey bees were called “white man's flies.” The name was recognition that the appearance of honey bees in America was associated with the arrival of the Europeans.

There was a close association between the westward migration of Europeans and the establishment of wild colonies of honey bees. Native Americans were said to have noticed that shortly after colonies of honey bees were discovered, white settlers would not be far behind."

Same source as above.

Adam Foster Collins
02-15-2017, 03:29 PM
1621 is the date I come up with as well, according toe Tammy Horn's "Bees in America: How the Honey Bee Shaped a Nation", points to the same origins as FlowerPlanter's posts above.

Looks like we're coming up on 400 years of bees in the US...

Adam

lemmje
02-15-2017, 03:32 PM
The Indians named them " white man's flies" might be an indication there were none here before.

This is one of my favorite stories.

aunt betty
02-15-2017, 04:05 PM
The question is bad. Deduct 20 points from the house of slitherin.

Bees? Which species?
U.S. did not exist until the late-1700's.

So who knows when apis melifera was brought to north america? ;)

Groundhwg
02-15-2017, 04:20 PM
Anyone want to take a crack at this?

Larry,
Please allow me to “piggy-back” on your thread as I love to read the history and knowledge shared on this forum. What information do we have as to when and where bees were first domesticated? I do not think we can consider Samson a beekeeper (Judges 14:8&9) after killing a lion, even though he got some honey out of the deal.
Thanks.

JConnolly
02-15-2017, 05:48 PM
What information do we have as to when and where bees were first domesticated?

There is evidence of beekeeping in pottery in Africa and Western Asia from 9,000 years ago. We know that the Egyptians kept bees more than forty-five hundred years ago. Early Holocene rock art from 14,000 years ago depicts harvesting honey. Chances are just as soon as people began to build structures to live in, honeybees moved into those structures along side us. If we were already harvesting honey, then we no doubt let them build their hive and were soon providing structures for the bees. However aside from providing structures for the bees and harvesting the honey, probably very little was done.

Beekeeping as we know it, managing a hive with harvestable sections, didn't happen until the 18th century.


Here is the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beekeeping) on beekeeping.

I suggest that you click on the footnotes. Footnote 2 had a quote from an Egyptian record that tells about a woman named Senchons needing to move her beehives, suggesting that migratory beekeeping was happening by the third century BCE.

edit: add link to footnote 2 since footnote numbering can change. http://reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/beekeeping.htm

JConnolly
02-15-2017, 06:17 PM
Lusby would strongly disagree.

Who/what is Lusby? I don't recognize that name.

ToeOfDog
02-15-2017, 06:48 PM
Who/what is Lusby? I don't recognize that name.
.
Dee and her late husband Ed Lusby. Go to the point of view section.

Michael Bush
02-16-2017, 07:37 AM
>The Indians named them " white man's flies" might be an indication there were none here before.

All references to this trace back to Jefferson. Jefferson gives no source for why he says this nor any corroboration for it. Quite a bit of ABJ of June 1923 (vol 63 no 6) is dedicated to answering the question of whether or not honey bees are native. One article is from a dissertation given in 1792 which references Jefferson's quote (at the time that Jefferson is still alive). In this same edition of ABJ Frank Pellet puts out an appeal for anyone having any historic documentation that could help answer the question to make it know. Here are two of several articles in that edition on the topic:

https://books.google.com/books?id=29swAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA299&dq=American+Bee+Journal+%22Jeremy+Belknap%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAGoVChMIgJus0IOxxwIVFBKSCh2NFwF7#v=on epage&q=American%20Bee%20Journal%20%22Jeremy%20Belknap%2 2&f=false

American Bee Journal June 1923 (Vol 63 No 6)

starting on page 299

IS THE HONEYBEE NATIVE OF AMERICA?

A Discourse Intended to Commemorate the Discovery of America by Christopher Columbus.

By Jeremy Belknap.

Delivered at the request of the Historical Society of Massachusetts on the 23rd of October, 1792

Dissertation No. 3, on the question whether the honeybee is a native of America.

Mr. Jefferson, in his notes on Virginia, has said that “The honeybee is not a native of our continent. The Indians concur with us in the tradition that it was brought from Europe, but when and by whom we know not. The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians called them the white man’s fly; and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlement of the whites.” He allows that “in Brazil there is a species of honeybee without a sting, but that is very different from the one we have, which perfectly resembles that of Europe.” The facts adduced by the respectable author are true; but they will not warrant his conclusion that “the honeybee, meaning the one resembling that of Europe, is not a native of our continent.”

There is one circumstance in the history of Columbus which proves that bees were known in the islands of the West Indies, at the time of his discovery. When on his first return to Europe he was in danger of perishing at sea, he wrote an account of his discovery on parchment, which he inclosed in a cake of wax, and put into a tight cask, committing the whole to the sea, in hope of it’s being driven on shore or taken up. This was procured in the island of Hispaniola, which he had visited, and it was one of the first fruits of his discovery.

The indefatigable Purchas gives us an account of the revenues of the Empire of Mexico, before the arrival of the Spaniards, as described in its annals; which were pictures drawn on cotton cloth. Among other articles he exhibits the figures of covered pots with two handles, which are said to be pots of “bees’ honey.” Of these pots, two hundred are depicted in one tribute-roll, and one hundred in several others.

This account is confirmed by the late history of Mexico, written by the Abbe Clavigero, a native of Vera Cruz who from a residence of thirty-six years in Mexico, and a minute inquiry into the natural history and antiquities of his country must be supposed to be well informed, and competent to give a just account. He tells us that a part of every useful production of nature or art was paid in tribute to the kings of Mexico, and among other articles of revenue he reckons “600 cups of honey” paid annually by the inhabitants of the southern part of the empire. He also says, “that though they extracted a great quantity of wax from the honeycomb, they either did not know how or were not at pains to make lights of it.”

In his enumeration of the insects of Mexico, he reckons six different kinds of bees which make honey, four of which have no stings, and one of the other two which have stings, one “agrees with the common bee of Europe, not only in size, shape and color, but also disposition and manners, and in qualities of its honey and wax.”

In the account given by Purchas, of the travels of Ferdinado de Soto, in Florida, it is observed that when he came to Chiaha, which by the description was one of the upper branches of the Mobile (now in the State of Georgia) he found among the provisions of the natives “a pot full of honey of bees.” This was A.D. 1540, when there were no Europeans settled on the continent of America, but in Mexico and Peru.

From these authorities it is evident that honeybees were known in Mexico and the islands, before the arrival of the Europeans; and that they had extended as far northward as Florida, a country so denominated from the numberless flowers, which grow there in the wild luxuriance and afford a plenty of food for this useful tribe of insects. The inference is, that bees were not imported by the Spaniards; for however fond they might be of honey as an article of food, or of wax to make tapers for common use, or for the illumination of their churches, yet as bees were known to be in the country there could be no need of importing them. The report of honey and wax being found in the islands, in Mexico, and in Florida, had reached Europe and had been published there long before any emigrations were made to the northward; therefore, if these had been considered as articles of subsistence or of commerce, the sanguine spirit of the first adventurers would have rather led them to think of finding them in America, than of transporting bees from Europe to make them.

As to the circumstance of the bees “extending themselves a little in advance of white settlers,” it cannot be considered as a conclusive argument in favor or their having been first brought from Europe. It is well known that where land is cultivated bees find a greater plenty of food than in the forest. The blossoms of fruit trees, of grasses and grain, particularly clover and buckwheat, afford them a rich and plentiful repast, and they are seen in vast numbers in our fields and orchards at the season of those blossoms. They therefore delight in the neighborhood of “the white settlers”, and are able to increase in numbers, as well as to augment their quantity of stores, by availing themselves of the labors of man. May it not be from this circumstance that the Indians have given them the name of “the white man’s fly”; and that they “consider their approach (or frequent appearance) as indicating the approach of the settlement of the whites?”

The first European settlement in Virginia was made about seventy years after the expedition of De Soto, in Florida, and the first settlement in New England was ten years posterior to that of Virginia. The large intermediate country was uncultivated for a long time afterward. The southern bees, therefore, could have no inducement to extend themselves very far into the northward for many years after the settlements were begun, and within that time bees were imported from Europe.

That honey and wax were not known to the Indians of New England is evident from this, that they had no words in their language for them. When Mr. Eliot translated the Bible into the Indian language, wherever these terms occurred he used the English words, though sometimes with Indian termination.

Joffelyn, who visited New England first in 1638, and afterward in 1663, and wrote an account of his voyage with some sketches of natural history in 1673, speaks of the honeybee in these words: “the honeybees are carried over by the English, and thrive there exceedingly.”

There is a tradition in New England that the person who first brought a hive of bees into the country was rewarded with a grant of land; but the person’s name, or the place where the land lay or by whom the grant was made, I have not been able to learn.

It appears then that the honeybee is a native of America, and that its productions were found by the first European visitors as far northward as Florida and Georgia. It is also true that bees were imported from Europe into New England, and probably into Virginia; but whether if this importation had not taken place, the bees of the southern parts would not have extended themselves northerly, or whether those which we now have are not a mixture of native and imported bees, cannot be determined. It is however certain that they have multiplied exceedingly, and that they are frequently found in New England, in a wild state, in the trunks of hollow trees, as far northward as cultivation and settlements have extended, which is nearly to the 45th degree of latitude.

I have made an inquiry of several persons from Canada, but have not learned that bees were known during their residence in that country. It is, however, not improbable that as cultivation extends, the bees may find their way to the northward of the lakes and rivers of Canada, even though none should be transported thither by the inhabitants.

Still American Bee Journal June 1923 (Vol 63 No 6)

page 301

EXCERPT FROM THE HISTORY OF MEXICO

By Abbe D. Francesco Saverio Clavigero (1731-1787)

Translated from the original Italian in 1806 by Chas Cullen, Esq.

Excerpt from Book 1, of Volume 1.

There are at least six different kinds of bees. The first is the same as the common bee of Europe, with which it agrees, not only in size, shape and color, but also in its disposition and manners, and in the qualities of its honey and wax.

The second species which differs from the first only in having no sting, is the bee of Yucatan and Chiapa, which makes the fine, clear honey of Estabentun, of an aromatic flavor, superior to that of all other kinds of honey with which we are acquainted. The honey is taken from them six times a year, that is once in every other month; but the best is that which is got in November, being made from a white flower like Jessamine, which blooms in September, called in that country Estabentun, from which the honey has derived its name. The honey of Estabentun is in high estimation with the English and French, who touch at the ports of Yucatan; and I have known the French of Buarico to buy it sometimes for the purpose of sending it as a present to the king.

The third species resembles in its form, the winged ants, but is smaller than the common bee, and without a sting. This insect, which is peculiar to warm and temperate climates, forms nests, in size and shape resembling sugar loaves, and even sometimes greatly exceeding these in size, from trees, and particularly from the oak. The populousness of these hives is much greater than those of the common bee. The nymphs of this bee, which are eatable, are white and round, like a pearl. The honey is of a grayish color, but of a fine flavor.

The fourth species is a yellow bee, smaller than the common one, but like it, furnished with a sting. Its honey is not equal to those already mentioned.

The fifth is a small bee furnished with a sting which constructs its hives of an orbicular form. In subterranean cavities; and the honey is sour and somewhat bitter.

The Tlalpiprolli, which is the sixth species, is black and yellow of the size of the common bee, but has no sting.

Wasp
The Xicotli or Xicote, is a thick black wasp, with a yellow belly, which makes a very sweet honey, in holes made by it in walls. It is provided with a strong sting, which gives a very painful wound. The cuicalmiahautl has likewise a sting, but whether it makes honey or not, we do not know.

naturebee
02-27-2017, 07:19 PM
Conestoga Indians tell a legend of a people who
introduced the honeybee to North America long ago.
Could it have been Madoc or Madog ab Owain Gwynedd
who was, according to folklore, a Welsh prince who
sailed to America in 1170?

Read the article:


Madoc or Madog ab Owain Gwynedd was, according
to folklore, a Welsh prince who sailed to America
in 1170, over three hundred years before
Christopher Columbus's voyage in 1492. After
being absent some time, he returned a second time,
and reported so favorably that a number of families
agreed to go along with him and plant a colony.
They sailed a third time, with ten ships, and were
no more heard from to this day.

If the legend of Madoc's colonization of America is
true, historians agree, that it would be unlikely
that a large flotilla of 10 ships, intent on planting
a colony in a foreign land would neglect to include
items essential for survival. They would make
great effort to include all of the most valuable
commodities needed in every day life. And one of the
most valuable commodities in those days, were honeybees,
-for sweetener and production of beeswax, -essential
for survival in early times.

The Native Americans had no written records. Historical
information was handed down through the generations by
the tribe elders and Indian Prophets. And through
repetitive reciting of these events and stories, maintained
a rather accurate account of past events and important
information. One of these events recited by the
great Indian Prophets, tells of a race of white people
that long ago, settled in America, and introduced
the honeybee.

=====Article Start=====

Two sources are listed below for the
following article.

Sioux County Herald - October 8, 1874,
Orange City, Iowa
A Dip Into History -Did the Welsh Find
America?

Potter's American monthly,
- 1875
Source:
http://books.google.com/books?id=P5cxPoGIcqMC&pg=PA149&dq=#v=onepage&q&f=false

Page 149

Who Discovered America.—It is interesting
to determine whether the Welsh discovered
America before the great Genoese did. The
following passage is taken from Powell's
"History of Wales."

" In the twelfth century, Prince Madoc, weary
of contending with his brother for his father's
crown, left his country and sailed from Wales
in a due west course. After being absent some
time, he returned a second time, and reported
so favorably that a number of families agreed
to go along with him and plant a colony. They
sailed a third time, with ten ships, and were no
more heard from to this day. Three hundred and
twenty-two years after that date, when Columbus
discovered this continent a second time and
returned to Europe to make his report, it caused
great excitement, and he was justly applauded.
But his enemies and those who envied his fame,
boldly charged him with acquiring his knowledge
from the charts and manuscripts of Prince Madoc."

" In the year 1854 I had a conversation with an
old Indian prophet, who styled himself the
fifteenth in the line of succession. He told me,
in broken English, that long ago a race of white
people lived at the mouth of Conestoga creek,
who had red hair and blue eyes, who cleared
the land, and fenced it, ploughed, raised grain,
etc.—that they introduced the honey bee,
unknown to them. He said the Indians called
them the Welegeens, and that in the time of the
fifth prophet the Conestoga Indians made war
upon them, and, after great slaughter on both
sides, the white settlers were driven away.

" Our fathers and grandfathers used to tell us
what a hatred and prejudice the Conestoga
Indians had against red-haired and blue-eyed
people in all their wars in Eastern Pennsylvania.
When taking white prisoners, they would
discriminate between the black-haired and the
red, showing mercy to the former, reserving the
latter for torture and death. This would seem to
indicate that they knew, from tradition, of Prince
Madoc and his followers, and of the fearful fight
they had made.

"About the year 1800 (for I must now quote from
memory), a man digging a cellar in the vicinity
of the Indian Steppes came upon a lot of small
iron axes, thirty-six in number. My father, who
resided in Manor township, and followed
blacksmithing, was presented with one of the
relics, and I recollect of seeing it in his shop
twenty-five years after that date.

"It was curiously constructed; the eye was joined
after the fashion of the old garden hoe; it had no
pole end, and had never been ground to an edge,
nor had the others ever been. It had lain so long
in the ground that the eye was eaten through with
rust, and its construction was so ancient that I
looked upon it as the first exodus from the stone
to the iron axe."

aunt betty
02-27-2017, 07:49 PM
Somewhere I saw pictures of the specialized bee hives that a man first hauled cross country in a wagon to California.
Wish my memory was better. It's hard to google bees, 1800's, and California without ending up on "almonds".
That might shed a little light onto this conversation. I'm thinking it was around 1849 when the man took them bees to California.
If bees were already there from the Vikings...why bother bringing them?

Rader Sidetrack
02-27-2017, 08:33 PM
No photo, but from a listing of California Historical Markers ....

NO. 945 FIRST SUCCESSFUL INTRODUCTION OF THE HONEYBEE TO CALIFORNIA - Here, on the 1,939-acre Rancho Potrero de Santa Clara, Christopher A. Shelton in early March 1853 introduced the honeybee to California. In Aspinwall, Panama, Shelton purchased 12 beehives from a New Yorker and transported them by rail, 'bongo,' pack mule, and steamship to San Francisco. Only enough bees survived to fill one hive, but these quickly propagated, laying the foundation for California's modern bee-keeping industry.

Location: San Jose Municipal Airport, 1661 Airport Blvd, San Jose

http://www.ohp.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=21522


A railroad across Panama was built before the first US transcontinental railroad. The Panama version was only partially built in 1853, but that one is likely the railroad referenced in the quote above.

JConnolly
02-28-2017, 12:04 PM
Interesting oral histories. I tend to be skeptical of time frames in oral traditions however. A 19th century oral history has no sure scale of time. The known 17th century introduction of bees would be a very long time in the past, especially in an oral history. It would be as far in the past to the teller of the story as the founding of the USA is in our past. If bees were introduced in the twelfth century than I think we would be justified in asking where are their descendants?

msl
02-28-2017, 01:00 PM
However aside from providing structures for the bees and harvesting the honey, probably very little was done.
Beekeeping as we know it, managing a hive with harvestable sections, didn't happen until the 18th century.
I am not sure that is accracet
as an example Those Egyptian hives you refrance, were harvested from the back in "sections" and the colony was kept intact. From the fount brood comb was taken for splits, and selective queen breeding was done. They didn't get stacks of hives in the 500 colony range chasing swarms and doing destructive harvests.

JConnolly
02-28-2017, 05:56 PM
I didn't picture it that way when I previously read it, but I see what you mean and it makes sense. Where it says bees were induced into building their comb across the hive is interesting. Now I'm picturing something like bee barrels, except in a solid clay pot.

Maybe we should break this out to another thread since this thread is about bees in North America.

Michael Bush
03-01-2017, 09:02 AM
>Beekeeping as we know it, managing a hive with harvestable sections, didn't happen until the 18th century.

Quinby was doing it in box hives in the late 1800s (no movable frames) but Nicol Jacobi was doing the same in the 1500s in Germany in box hives. Grafting queens, doing splits and harvesting honey.

I wish I had it available in English... https://smile.amazon.com/Bienen-Kunst-German-Caspari-H%C3%B6fflers/dp/1614762570/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488383986&sr=8-1&keywords=bienen+kunst